Scamp door latch/lock problem - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-13-2014, 12:48 PM   #1
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Name: Cory
Trailer: Scamp
Montana
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Scamp door latch/lock problem

I have an '82 scamp with a door latch that appears to be original. The door latches (with a little sag) and both handles operate freely. I did not have a key so I asked scamp to send one with some parts and gave them the number stamped on the outside (112) and the key they sent does not turn completely.

Possible problems:
1. The key is stamped AC112 so is it the wrong key? The key can be inserted upside down and right-side up and it turns freely until about 1/2 way then it stops.
2. Is the lock frozen? I have used WD40 a for a few weeks. (I know that is not great for locks so I will clean it and use something else if I can get it working.) The key turns at least halfway without any friction and then stops dead without locking.
3. Do I need a new handle/assembly? In 30+ years someone could have changed something and we won't be able to find the right key so I may have to replace the handle or assembly. I am okay with that but how? I took out the outer screws and I do not see any other pins or connectors out there. I removed the 6 screws inside and drilled out the 2 places where it was spot welded and that let me take off the inside cover. I soaked the handle with WD40 and I cannot get anything else to come off.

I can post pictures later this evening but I wanted to get the question out there. I feel like it would work with the right key but I am not sure if I will ever find it.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:57 AM   #2
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Pictures from the handle.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_4084.JPG   IMG_4085.JPG  

IMG_4086.JPG  
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:17 AM   #3
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Name: bob
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Is that outside handle the type that when you lock it, it will just turn around and not open the door? Looks like what I installed on my teardrop.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corys View Post
.....

Possible problems:

3. Do I need a new handle/assembly? In 30+ years someone could have changed something and we won't be able to find the right key so I may have to replace the handle or assembly. I am okay with that but how? I took out the outer screws and I do not see any other pins or connectors out there. I removed the 6 screws inside and drilled out the 2 places where it was spot welded and that let me take off the inside cover. I soaked the handle with WD40 and I cannot get anything else to come off.
.....
A couple of years ago I ordered the outer handle (with lock) and inner latch from scamp and it fit fine on the original inside mechanism from 1977.

The outside handle has a square shaft that you see coming through to the inside handle. The outside handle and shaft just slides into the inside mechanism BUT after all these years shaft is sort of rusted and stuck.

See scamp store picture of new outside handle with shaft.
https://www.scamptrailers.com/parts-...le-detail.html
And inside handle with hole for shaft.
https://www.scamptrailers.com/parts-...le-detail.html

What I did is best done as a two person job because you need someone to brace the door.

With someone bracing the door on either side of the outside handle use a flat bottom drift punch smaller than the shaft to tap in the center of that square shaft from the inside and drive it out. Use care to position drift punch the center of the shaft. Moderate force, start gentle but don't hit it too hard (say less than 1/2 the force of driving a nail max)

If it slides out. Cool your locking handle and latch are out. If not....

I used a small propane torch to heat just the square shaft from the inside then applied WD40 or maybe Breakaway penetrating oil. Have to be careful to not overheat that shaft (melt fiberglass) and not allow the heat from the torch to get aimed at anything but the shaft (melt liner in a heartbeat from 2 feet away if directed at it).

Your just applying a little heat to cause shaft to expand then quenching with penetrating oil. The lubricant "follows" the retreating heat back along the shaft. Expansion and contraction helps shaft to break free.

Heat, quench with penetrating oil, brace door, tap a few times. Repeat as needed. Once it starts to move it will go pretty easily.

Locksmith can repair lock or provide matching key but new handle from Scamp is $16 and comes with key. All shiny too!

New outside handle the shaft is too long, one size fits all length intended to be cut to fit your door thickness so it ends up flush with inside handle.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:45 AM   #5
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I should add that the above did NOT work to remove the shaft that had been rusting in place for 35 years on my camper and I had to go to a more extreme route.

I used a center punch to mark the center of the square shaft on the inside then drilled the shaft out with a drill just a tiny amount larger than the shaft, between drilling to remove shaft material binding with inside latch and penetrating oil I was eventually able to tap it out.

Picture showing drilled out shaft (only has corners left) and really old handle.

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Old 05-14-2014, 10:51 AM   #6
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Name: Cory
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Thanks for the replies!

I am not sure about how the handle responds when locked because I can't get it to lock. I guess that is a lot better than not being able to get it unlocked!

Fantastic directions for removing it! Now I know that my weekend has a hammer and torch in the plans. I think I will have to fashion a shield if I use the torch because I could imagine that liner melting. Thanks for the warning. I figured rust was a culprit but I am glad to have reassurance because so far I have fixed more things than I broke and I wanted to keep it that way.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:59 AM   #7
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What you have on the inside is a "Canned Ham" style door latch. They're really simple mechanisms, but that one looks like it's been repaired a few times already. You might want to just buy a new one to replace it:

Canned Ham Door Latch

As for the exterior lock and handle, any locksmith can re-key the lock, and there's almost nothing that wears out in the assembly. Just use lock oil or lubricating powder to keep it operating smoothly.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:12 AM   #8
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Cory I would take a sharp knife and cut through the caulking that has been put on the outside handle as well - although by the looks of the picture it has failed & not doing much of anything (use butyl tape when you put it back) - you never know it may be stopping it from sliding right off as well.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:28 AM   #9
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All the outside handle lock does is prevent the outside handle from turning. No turn square shaft then door latch not open.

Also note that a small hole in your inside cover plate is your inside door lock. The hole is located just below the inside handle. You hang a cotter pin from one of the mounting screws with a wire or light chain. Then stick the pin through the hole so the inside handle can't go down.

New inside mechanism probably won't have that hole for a locking pin. Hole has to go through both front and back of inside latch mechanism. Plus into door, have care the door is not very thick at the latch area. I drilled that hole with inside latch off the door, then marked drill bit with tape to make sure I did not drill more than a little deeper than the latch to prevent drilling through door to the outside.

Of course since the hinges are on the outside locking the door only prevents people who don't have a crescent wrench from getting in. But hinge removal does allows you access if you lock yourself out by putting in the inside lock pin in then allowing door to close (don't ask me how I know that scenario)

Not breaking things while fixing them is desirable but breaking them is not all bad. Considering that wisdom is nothing more than a history of making plenty of mistakes that were all non-fatal mistakes.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:45 AM   #10
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This sounds silly, but is the best description. Have you jiggled/wiggled the key as you turn it? I had new keys made for my old Scamp and apparently they were just a little off. A few times of trying to turn them with a little wiggle each time got them working, and now they work well. Just had to get the parts used to each other and playing nice together.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
Locksmith can repair lock or provide matching key but new handle from Scamp is $16 and comes with key. All shiny too!

New outside handle the shaft is too long, one size fits all length intended to be cut to fit your door thickness so it ends up flush with inside handle.
My outside lock failed also, but being newer, the inside part was fine and the shaft wasn't frozen.

I got the handle/lock from a local RV shop (identical to Scamp's) for about $12 and no shipping (and they cut the shaft to match the old part for free ). So if all you're going to replace is the outside handle/lock, it might be worth looking locally first. I even found a lever-type garage door handle at ACE that would have worked for even less $$, but it didn't look/feel as nice as the original.

OTOH, given the age and condition, it might make sense to order both pieces from Scamp and be done. I didn't have a choice, because the thing decided to fail less than 24 hours before we were scheduled to depart on our maiden voyage...

Good luck getting it apart!
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:06 AM   #12
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I used a garage door latch from a big box store and it slid right into the square shaft on my scamp door, works perfect, and came withtwo keys. Not sure if that helps your problem. $12 maybe.
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Old 05-17-2014, 10:03 PM   #13
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Name: Cory
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Success!!
I will take some pictures tomorrow when it is light out but it went really well and we even found another option. We were ready for all the steps with the hammer, torch, and drill. It had been hit with WD40 a couple times this week.
Take 1- hammer. A couple solid whacks and it did not budge.
Take 2- hammer drill! This was a slight stray from the plan but a friend brought over a hammer drill that we were able to use on the hammer only setting. Two seconds tops and the shaft slid free! It provided quick, accurate impacts that were not hard enough to damage the rest of the door. Worked really well!
No need for heat or to drill the whole thing out.

Off to Ace and I bought a new handle with a working lock for $13. While everything was off I hit the metal with a steel wheel on the drill and brought back the metal shine! Two weeks till out maiden voyage.

Thanks again for everyone's help!
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Old 05-17-2014, 10:10 PM   #14
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Happy Dance!



Enjoy your trip!!!
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