Scamp Snap Cap Washers? - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 02-23-2016, 06:09 PM   #15
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Thanks very much Tim, Eddie, and Steven!

Lots of great information to think about, for sure!

What I really need is for one or two of you guys to come over to my home...and take over...so i wouldn't have to decide what to do!

No? Well, OK, thanks for the information. I do value the information Ihat I have received here!

Bill
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bill Nolen View Post
Thanks very much Tim, Eddie, and Steven!

Lots of great information to think about, for sure!

What I really need is for one or two of you guys to come over to my home...and take over...so i wouldn't have to decide what to do!

No? Well, OK, thanks for the information. I do value the information Ihat I have received here!

Bill
I can't make it out there, but I tell you what would work. You tow it on down here to Sunny Florida and we will do it in my driveway. I would get you started and then turn it over to you and my associate (daughter). At 12 she is already an accomplished "inside woman" of a rivet team. I have hookups and you can make a vay-cay out of it. Gas is cheap, what you waiting for?
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:10 AM   #17
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Thanks Greg, I have actually been pondering about doing just that.

However, the actual size of the bolts or machine screws were/are still a question mark in my thinking, so your comments are very timely!

Did you use the escutcheon ring washers on both the outside and inside?

Bill
Just on the outside, under the oval head machine screw. If you go this route, get some of the 1/4"-20 screws in 1" and some in 1.25" lengths. They'll cover about 99% of all the locations on the trailer.
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:25 AM   #18
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I'll try for three posts in row. I mulled over the bolt idea pretty hard even figuring out the size issue and tracking them down. In the end I decided not to reinvent the wheel and just went back with rivets, washers and caps. If I saw a real advantage to bolts I would have done it, and still will on a couple of places that are inaccessible to rivet tool (under the awning).


There are some very nice large head stainless bolts, bonded rubber stainless washers, and stainless nylock nuts. They would seem to work very well at providing a secure weatherproof connection while allowing a little give so as not to break the fiberglass as seems to be a concern amongst the "do not bolt crowd".
One of those real advantages is that you'll never ever again replace a deteriorated snap cap. Every rivet you replace with a machine screw and washer, (sans snap caps,) will be good to go forever after. And, it will also provide a much stronger bond between joined components. The myth going around about rivets breaking before there is damage to the fiberglass is all just a bunch of crap. There are two reasons that trailer manufacturers use rivets instead of stainless bolts: 1.) Expediency of installation, and 2.) reduced cost per fastener. The sales reps of all the fiberglass trailer manufacturers try to BS people into believing that they use rivets to prevent damage to the fiberglass. Well, if that were true, then why has the boat building industry, using s/s screws and nuts for over 60 years, not used rivets instead? It's because screws are stronger than rivets, and you can't tell me that any fiberglass trailer will ever see the kind of shock force and pounding abuse that a fiberglass boat sees. Total BS argument.
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Old 02-24-2016, 11:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Timber Wolf View Post
I can't make it out there, but I tell you what would work. You tow it on down here to Sunny Florida and we will do it in my driveway. I would get you started and then turn it over to you and my associate (daughter). At 12 she is already an accomplished "inside woman" of a rivet team. I have hookups and you can make a vay-cay out of it. Gas is cheap, what you waiting for?
Tim, that's a wonderful offer! The last time I was invited to visit a friend in Florida all my poor relatives...and i mean REALLY POOR Relatives followed me down to have a vacation in Florida!

With all my cousins, with their children, and of course their hound dogs...it made quite a crowd around my friends dinner table. I guess I should say "formal friend" because I am no longer able to contact him or his wife!

Oh yes...you forgot to provide me with your address.....

Seriously...it sounds like you have a daughter that is a great helper, and a young lady you can be proud of!

Bill
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Old 02-24-2016, 11:44 AM   #20
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Just on the outside, under the oval head machine screw. If you go this route, get some of the 1/4"-20 screws in 1" and some in 1.25" lengths. They'll cover about 99% of all the locations on the trailer.
Thanks Greg. After reading you message I checked my machine screw supply, and while I have a lot of 1/4"-20 machine screws, none are SS, and in those sizes.

However, I do have a great ACE Hardware close to my home, so i will pay them a visit this afternoon.

Bill
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Old 02-24-2016, 11:58 AM   #21
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One of those real advantages is that you'll never ever again replace a deteriorated snap cap. Every rivet you replace with a machine screw and washer, (sans snap caps,) will be good to go forever after. And, it will also provide a much stronger bond between joined components. The myth going around about rivets breaking before there is damage to the fiberglass is all just a bunch of crap. There are two reasons that trailer manufacturers use rivets instead of stainless bolts: 1.) Expediency of installation, and 2.) reduced cost per fastener. The sales reps of all the fiberglass trailer manufacturers try to BS people into believing that they use rivets to prevent damage to the fiberglass. Well, if that were true, then why has the boat building industry, using s/s screws and nuts for over 60 years, not used rivets instead? It's because screws are stronger than rivets, and you can't tell me that any fiberglass trailer will ever see the kind of shock force and pounding abuse that a fiberglass boat sees. Total BS argument.
Greg, based upon my experience with restoring my old Scamp, I have grown to very much dislike having to replace old leaking rivets!

So where ever possible I most likely will be replacing old rivets with machine screws/nuts or bolts/nuts. Not all, but most!

Thanks for your comments,

Bill
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:15 PM   #22
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Dear Casita Gregg and TimberWolf,

Been reading your info with interest. I'm wondering if you could either show me a pic or a link to the:

SS bonded rubber washers
SS escutcheon ring washers.

Hope I wrote that right. Appreciate your forthrightness.

Wendy


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Old 02-24-2016, 07:46 PM   #23
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Dear Casita Gregg and TimberWolf,

Been reading your info with interest. I'm wondering if you could either show me a pic or a link to the:

SS bonded rubber washers
SS escutcheon ring washers.

Hope I wrote that right. Appreciate your forthrightness.

Wendy
Your command is my wish: https://www.boltdepot.com/Bonded_sea...teel_18-8.aspx

I don't know about the escutcheon washers, did not investigate them as I did the bonded washers before deciding to go with rivets.
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Old 02-25-2016, 07:28 AM   #24
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..... I guess I should say "formal friend" because I am no longer able to contact him or his wife!....
Did you actually mean "formal friend" or did that darn auto-complete or spell checker bite you in the behind?
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Old 02-25-2016, 08:45 AM   #25
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And from the same site that Timberwolf posted for you, these are the stainless steel escutcheon rings for use with the oval headed screws, aka "decorative rings" which I mentioned. If you choose the other ones, with the bonded sealing washers, please remember that in either case, you will still need to seal the holes with a good grade of sealant. I would recommend 3M 4200, or an equivalent marine grade sealant. Please do not use "caulking" as your sealant of choice. And additionally, although some do use it, I would personally avoid silicone sealants as well, as they break down over time. Please don't just apply the sealant around the edges of the holes. Put a dab right in the hole to be sure that you get a good water-tight seal and bond around the fasteners. Just wipe off the excess once the nuts and bolts are tightened before it sets up.

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-De...x?product=2941
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Old 02-25-2016, 08:56 AM   #26
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Did you actually mean "formal friend" or did that darn auto-complete or spell checker bite you in the behind?
Ha! I'm afraid it's a sign of my poor spelling ability , but, also my lack of proofreading skills!

However, I'm quite happy accepting that it's Spell-Check's fault!

Bill
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Old 02-25-2016, 09:06 AM   #27
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And from the same site that Timberwolf posted for you, these are the stainless steel escutcheon rings for use with the oval headed screws, aka "decorative rings" which I mentioned. If you choose the other ones, with the bonded sealing washers, please remember that in either case, you will still need to seal the holes with a good grade of sealant. I would recommend 3M 4200, or an equivalent marine grade sealant....
3M also makes a 3M 5200 sealer which should NEVER be used unless you want a permanent bond, as 3M 5200 is very, very, difficult to remove once it cures.

Bill
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Old 02-25-2016, 09:57 AM   #28
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3M also makes a 3M 5200 sealer which should NEVER be used unless you want a permanent bond, as 3M 5200 is very, very, difficult to remove once it cures.

Bill
I agree. In addition to my many "retirement hobbies," I used to do a lot of work on boats as well, and 3M 5200 is a very good sealant, but it is also very permanent. Whatever you use it on will definitely be permanently bonded together. I have literally ripped wood and fiberglass apart trying to separate things bonded with 5200. If it is something that you never ever want to take apart again, it's the best. But that is why I recommended 3M 4200, which does an excellent job of bonding, but will allow things to be taken apart again if need be, although it will still require a bit of effort as well.
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