Scamp Upper Cabinets Questions - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-20-2009, 01:23 AM   #15
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I do not think I took pictures when I built those cabinets . . . but, no. I did not use a router. I'll throw a quick graphic together to show you how I did it. 'Scuse me if it looks like a cartoon. ;-)

What I did do was cut a square notch out of a 2x2 timber, cut a 45-degree angle on the opposite side (to make more room inside the cabinet), attached my 1/4" ply to the flat edges to line them up with the notch I cut, then inserted a piece of hardware-store-bought 3/4" quarter-round into the notch. Lastly, any gaps in the fit were filled with plastic wood filler and sanded smooth.


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Obviously I'm skipping a few steps here, like the somewhat trial-and-error process of getting the table saw to cut the exact notch I needed to get the quarter-round to line up smoothly with the edges of the 1/4" ply and the hassle of gluing the plywood and quarter-round to the restructured 2x2, but you get the idea.

--Peter

Quote:
I have been studying your pictures. I think your design for the loft cabinets is fantastic. I have been toying with an idea of doing something similar but I didn't know where to begin. I think I am if you don't mind going to completely borrow your design. I think I will do the upper end one a little different to match my decor but I am amazed how good they look. That was at least double the cabinet space in my trailer. I have a 77 Scamp. The roof is a little saggy and part of the reason I am looking at this is to help reinforce the roof as well as gain space. You did a fantastic job with making the lofts look factory. How did you get the rounded corner to look so good? Did you router it?

Thank you all again for all the information!
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:40 AM   #16
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I do not think I took pictures when I built those cabinets . . . but, no. I did not use a router. I'll throw a quick graphic together to show you how I did it. 'Scuse me if it looks like a cartoon. ;-)

What I did do was cut a square notch out of a 2x2 timber, cut a 45-degree angle on the opposite side (to make more room inside the cabinet), attached my 1/4" ply to the flat edges to line them up with the notch I cut, then inserted a piece of hardware-store-bought 3/4" quarter-round into the notch. Lastly, any gaps in the fit were filled with plastic wood filler and sanded smooth.


Attachment 24457


Obviously I'm skipping a few steps here, like the somewhat trial-and-error process of getting the table saw to cut the exact notch I needed to get the quarter-round to line up smoothly with the edges of the 1/4" ply and the hassle of gluing the plywood and quarter-round to the restructured 2x2, but you get the idea.

--Peter
Nice graphic! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us. I feel better now because I was already on the same thought line with how I was planing on doing the round. I had also figured on doing the stock quarter round and notching a 2x2... I had however not thought about 45in it off to make it wedgey... That is a brilliant idea. And now I know it will work too!

I went out last night and started cutting cardboard. I have a pattern for the sink side now, and if time premits I will hopefully get to cut some wood out tonight. I was imagining the look of the finished product as I had my cardboard's hanging on the wall in mock-up. I think we are going to love this layout! I was wondering though off hand do you recall how deep you ended up making your bridge cabinet? Just courious?

Thank you again!
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Old 10-20-2009, 02:04 PM   #17
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. . . I was wondering though off hand do you recall how deep you ended up making your bridge cabinet? Just courious? . . .
My bridge is 11" deep at the point where it meets up with the side cabinets, somewhat deeper as the trailer curves out over the window. You need to take that into consideration before you cut/build the opening for the side cabinets, and you need to take that measurement at the point where the bottom edge of the bridge will lie! If you don't do that and measure from the bottom corner your bridge will come close to or even cover some of your side cabinet door opening.

Also worth mentioning is I glued a double thickness of 1/4" ply in the face of the side cabinets where the bridge attaches.

The center section in my bridge is just slightly wider than a Monopoly board, the side openings (with the roll-top doors) are just over 11" wide. That makes the center section just right for (wait for it) board games and the side cabinets just right for storing the books and magazines we're currently reading.

Another suggestion I've seen, like, but ultimately decided not to include, was a downward-facing opening for a box if tissue. Cool idea . . . and I'm still undecided as to whether I should have made the opening or not.
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:27 PM   #18
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My bridge is 11" deep at the point where it meets up with the side cabinets, somewhat deeper as the trailer curves out over the window. You need to take that into consideration before you cut/build the opening for the side cabinets, and you need to take that measurement at the point where the bottom edge of the bridge will lie! If you don't do that and measure from the bottom corner your bridge will come close to or even cover some of your side cabinet door opening.

Also worth mentioning is I glued a double thickness of 1/4" ply in the face of the side cabinets where the bridge attaches.

The center section in my bridge is just slightly wider than a Monopoly board, the side openings (with the roll-top doors) are just over 11" wide. That makes the center section just right for (wait for it) board games and the side cabinets just right for storing the books and magazines we're currently reading.

Another suggestion I've seen, like, but ultimately decided not to include, was a downward-facing opening for a box if tissue. Cool idea . . . and I'm still undecided as to whether I should have made the opening or not.
Just reading all the great stuff you have done to your Scamp, a few questions

to Attach shelves and such, didi you remove the interior covering? or mak some type of slit? Have you ever use something call a fiberglass weld mount? If so does it hold up well? and how much can it hold? thanks suger mcallen
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:40 PM   #19
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I attach my shelves the same way Scamp did, using screws and pop-top caps. About the only difference when I do it is I make a thick band of butyl putty around the shafts of my screws & rivets just under the pop-cap before screwing them in. The butyl squeezes out all around the pop-capand has to be cleaned up, but it makes a good seal that will flex with the trailer and should last 15 or 20 years. As for the rat fur, my cabinets are clamped right on top of it, and no, I don't cut a slit. I just drill through the stuff and use a utility knife to cut the fuzz off the drill each time.

I can't speak to fiberglass weld mounts very well because I don't use them, but I can't help but think that, correctly done, they would be stronger than just screwing through the shell. They are certainly more water-tight. The down side is they are a lot more work to put in and not very forgiving if they are put in the wrong spot for one's eventual cabinet or shelf placement. If I drill through the shell in the wrong spot all I need do is move my screw over and fill the errant hole with marine epoxy putty. Problem solved.

Quote:
Just reading all the great stuff you have done to your Scamp, a few questions

to Attach shelves and such, didi you remove the interior covering? or mak some type of slit? Have you ever use something call a fiberglass weld mount? If so does it hold up well? and how much can it hold? thanks suger mcallen
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:17 PM   #20
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My bridge is 11" deep at the point where it meets up with the side cabinets, somewhat deeper as the trailer curves out over the window. You need to take that into consideration before you cut/build the opening for the side cabinets, and you need to take that measurement at the point where the bottom edge of the bridge will lie! If you don't do that and measure from the bottom corner your bridge will come close to or even cover some of your side cabinet door opening.

Also worth mentioning is I glued a double thickness of 1/4" ply in the face of the side cabinets where the bridge attaches.

The center section in my bridge is just slightly wider than a Monopoly board, the side openings (with the roll-top doors) are just over 11" wide. That makes the center section just right for (wait for it) board games and the side cabinets just right for storing the books and magazines we're currently reading.

Another suggestion I've seen, like, but ultimately decided not to include, was a downward-facing opening for a box if tissue. Cool idea . . . and I'm still undecided as to whether I should have made the opening or not.
Ok.... I hope this works!

Two times now I have written up several pages of reply and when I hit the post button I got an error and it was all goon. I think I may have finally fixed it. Thou I have pretty much forgotten what I was saying

Couple nights ago I got out to the trailer and was able to make some card board cutouts. And I was surprised how much work that ended up being. The next night I was able to cut out some ply for my first attempt to shape the wood. Now I have decided to use a 1/4" veneer simply because it was cheaper and a bit stronger than the other stuff I could find. It is actually an under layment but it does have a decent finish to it. Since I will be painting the cabinets with an acrylic (Epoxy something) appliance paint The grain style to me does not matter. So back to the cutting (Fun Part) I stenciled out the first piece. I started on the driver side bottom piece first. After about 30 trips back and forth from the shop to the trailer I finally had it shaped up pretty well. I like the fit it is pretty clean. What I found amazing was the amount of sag and droop in my fiberglass walls. Nothing uniform AT ALL! But that aside I thing I have the process down. I picked up some 3/4 - 1/4 Rounds as you used and experimented with the layout for the corner. When I started to work on the shaping for the face piece I ran into a pretty good snag. My ceiling is drooping a bit in one spot. And I am not sure what to do about it. If I shape the cabinet to the roof it is going to look "FUNKY MONKEY"... I tried to push up on the roof and I was not really able to move it much. It appears that the factory cabinet over the cook top is the issue. The unit has the wrought iron supports attached and they appear to be actually pulling the roof down around the upper cabinet. I never noticed this before. So I will have to come up with something. Also I found some disturbing evidence of a roof leak that is leaching water under the ensolite. I will have to investigate that as well but I am glad I found it now rather than in spring. Yakima is a desert but it still gets pretty snowy here . All that being said I was out in ye-old garage working on our new cabinets when my dear littlie wifey popped her head in to say hi and see what I was up to? She cheerfully reminded me that I have about 2,000+ (Slightly exaggerated) Projects that I need to finish before snow flys. That are far more important (And she is right) than our cabinet situation in the trailer. I got so excited about this project (that I have been wanting to take on since I bought the thing) that I forgot that I really donít have time to work on it right now. I do so much appreciate all of the advice and assistance however. I will continue to post as I finish aspects of the project.

I hope that this thread is helpful to other owners in the mean time.

I wanted to take a moment to list a few of my comments on the advice given, as I have been researching this project for some time.

Hanging the cabinets - I believe that wood blocks or strip glued and or glassed to the cupboard drilled though and bolted with SS hardware is the best method for installation. Using wood will provide an even stress point load to the cabinet walls and bottom. Also wood will absorb and muffle vibrations and minimize vibration transfer into the fiberglass. This dampening effect is also reversed and vibrations in the fiberglass wall will also not be transferred as easily into the structure of the cabinet. This is less of an issue with the stock fiberglass cabinets due to the fact that they are the same materials and will vibrate ad the same frequency. Using a "bolt-though" design for hardware will in effect float in the hole though the wall. This will also limit direct vibration impact into the gel coat and substructure of the wall. Again, limiting the chance of gel coat fatigue and stress cracking. You can also tighten the bolts after a few months of travel because the wood and whatnot will expand and contract after a while. You cannot re torque pop rivets. (Correct me if I am wrong) -- Side note these are all very minor issues... My Scampís gel coat is so cracked it looks like varicose veins!!!

Sealing the holes - "butyl tape and stainless steel fasteners with SS washers" Agree all the way. I have dun the same with all of the other mods/repairs I have preformed. One word of caution: Stainless to stainless has a habit of galling. I recommend using a galvanized or nickel plated nut on the inside of the connection, on the stainless bolt. I would still use a stainless washer behind the nut to prevent later corrosion. Moisture seams to be a huge problem in my trailer... I have had some issues already with galvanized hardware. ( I use a catalytic heater at time present)

Not removing or slicing the ensolite - Also adds to the benefits of the afore mentioned. Shock absorption. Also I learned the hard way... On an older rig the stuff shrinks with time and so is tightly stretched around the walls.. When I cut a small hole for one of my minor mods it grew to a huge split. I had a dastardly time trying to fix it. I do not recommend trying to slit it or remove a specific section of it because It might be hard to hide the edges. Also in-tact is a good vapor barrier for the inside fiberglass walls. I imagine that cutting into it would allow condensation to gather behind, and if you are putting wood against the glass you could have a quick mold problem, not to mention rot.

Tissue Slot - I also had been toying with that addition. But I want to do something unique with it, especially since I am completely ripping off the design of the rest of it. I will post about it later if I can come up with something. But there is only so many ways to dispense tissue!
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:14 PM   #21
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. . . When I started to work on the shaping for the face piece I ran into a pretty good snag. My ceiling is drooping a bit in one spot. And I am not sure what to do about it. If I shape the cabinet to the roof it is going to look "FUNKY MONKEY"... I tried to push up on the roof and I was not really able to move it much. It appears that the factory cabinet over the cook top is the issue. The unit has the wrought iron supports attached and they appear to be actually pulling the roof down around the upper cabinet. I never noticed this before.

Hanging the cabinets - I believe that wood blocks or strip glued and or glassed to the cupboard drilled though and bolted with SS hardware is the best method for installation. Using wood will provide an even stress point load to the cabinet walls and bottom. Also wood will absorb and muffle vibrations and minimize vibration transfer into the fiberglass. This dampening effect is also reversed and vibrations in the fiberglass wall will also not be transferred as easily into the structure of the cabinet. This is less of an issue with the stock fiberglass cabinets due to the fact that they are the same materials and will vibrate ad the same frequency.
I would not be surprised if the cabinet supports were installed a little low . . . 1/4 or 1/2 inch would be very believable. Beyond that I think you should look for damage elsewhere. Perhaps someone pulled the braces out for a while before re-installing them. If that's the case you might try loosening the lower part of the brackets (both sides), then bracing the counter top and under the cabinet and using a hydraulic jack to carefully push the roof up (on both sides). Then you can use straight cabinets and prevent roof sag all at once.

I thought I'd point out that it would be good to leave a little gap between the new cabinet and the existing fiberglass one. That way you won't get stress cracking in the cabinet as the trailer flexes.
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:15 PM   #22
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I would not be surprised if the cabinet supports were installed a little low . . . 1/4 or 1/2 inch would be very believable. Beyond that I think you should look for damage elsewhere. Perhaps someone pulled the braces out for a while before re-installing them. If that's the case you might try loosening the lower part of the brackets (both sides), then bracing the counter top and under the cabinet and using a hydraulic jack to carefully push the roof up (on both sides). Then you can use straight cabinets and prevent roof sag all at once.


I thought I'd point out that it would be good to leave a little gap between the new cabinet and the existing fiberglass one. That way you won't get stress cracking in the cabinet as the trailer flexes.
1:
Well....... I can say without a doubt that some inexperianced person...... Did pull those rusty black ugly braces off and clean them up all pretty like and then re-mount them.... Without being for sure the upper cab was fully lofted.... (Allthough I was pretty sure I put them back in the same holes.... ----)

2:
That is a good point.... I have about 1/16" or so of a gap on the piece that I cut for the bottom of the cabinet. That is a good Idea I wondered if that would be a problem going wood to fiberglass... as them being dislike materials...

Thank you for the advise.. I will check my supports... I bet I missed the alignment when I remounted them
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:34 PM   #23
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I finally had a chance to build some of the new cabinets. I used most of PeterH's design. I am actually astounded at how strong they are. It will be a few weeks before I have time to build the door fronts but the cabinets them selves are in and we are way happy! Many thanks for all the design help! I posted all the pictures on my may thread here is the link.

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/in...howtopic=37646

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Old 03-23-2010, 12:55 AM   #24
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Those cabinets look awfully familiar. If it wasn't for the squared-off windows I'd think you stole my trailer.

Nice job.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:39 AM   #25
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Those cabinets look awfully familiar. If it wasn't for the squared-off windows I'd think you stole my trailer.

Nice job.
Thank you!

What can I say, if your going to rob the patent office.... At least go for the best designs!


BTW - Where will you be next weekend? I still need a bridge and door fronts


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Old 03-23-2010, 01:12 PM   #26
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Food for thought
Here's another opton for the side shelves. We used some closet wire shelving and inverted it. It doesn't make the trailer feel so closed in. I left the arms a bit long, drilled the holes and inserted one end and pulled back to insert the other. They have never moved.
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:40 PM   #27
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Attachment 26952

Food for thought
Here's another opton for the side shelves. We used some closet wire shelving and inverted it. It doesn't make the trailer feel so closed in. I left the arms a bit long, drilled the holes and inserted one end and pulled back to insert the other. They have never moved.

I love this idea!
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:20 PM   #28
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I've always liked James' wire shelf idea too - have it saved in my idea file

Thanks for posting it, James

Raya
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