Scamp Upper Cabinets Questions - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-14-2009, 03:56 PM   #1
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I saw some pictures on another site where a guy made his own uper front and rear cabinets for his 76 Boler. I have been wanting to build my own as well. Can somone tell me what the measurements are for the factory cabinets? Basicly the height at the apex and the depth at the midpoint would be helpfull. Also are the front and rear the same dimensions?

Thank you in advance!
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:38 PM   #2
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David,

Con, a member here, made an overhead rear cabinet for his Boler and shared a lofting pattern with us. You would want to check the fit on your Scamp, of course, but as far as I know the molds for the older Scamps like yours are the same as the Boler. This pattern is for a cabinet that comes down to just above the rear window gasket, so that the curtain rods can then be suspended from the bottom of the cabinet, instead of riveting through the shell.

There a post just before this one in the same thread where he posts the pattern for shorter cabinets (i.e. they don't come down as close to the windows).

This is for a rear cabinet:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.ph...st&p=203275

Also, here is a thread on making your own upper cabinets:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.ph...mp;#entry303125

By the way, it's mentioned in the latter thread that the front cabinet is of slightly different dimensions than the rear one.

Raya
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:58 PM   #3
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I put overhead cabinents in our Scamp.... Made the pattern out of several pieces of cardboard, etc, whatever was laying around the shop. Then taped them together to get the full piece pattern. I would hesitate to say a pattern that fits my trailer would fit another Scamp..... Age, settling, "middle aged spread", difference in production dates (Monday or a Friday) etc, would all be a factor.... The front contour was different from the rear also. Used "L" brackets to hold them by drilling out the rivets holding the curtain brackets and putting SS stove bolts in, then hung the curtains from the bottom of the shelves. Larry
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over_bed_cabinents__Small_.JPG   SANY0541__Small_.JPG  

SANY0542__Small_.JPG   SANY0543__Small_.JPG  

SANY0544__Small_.JPG   SANY0545__Small_.JPG  

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Old 10-14-2009, 07:38 PM   #4
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Hi Larry,

Your shelves are one of the sets that are in my second link

But now you've added even more photos - thanks!

Raya
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:32 AM   #5
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Thank you so much for all the info. I have access to a plotter so I will plot out the template and see if it will fit. At any rate answered my questions. I had imagined a wrap around cabinet but I was not sure if I would like it, or how to do it for that matter. I think it looks great. I will start with the end cabinet over the dinett. I think once I have that one down I can do the front one. I will later do the side cabs. Those look great! Thank you all for the information. I will post pictures of my progresss!

Thank you again!
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:32 PM   #6
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We removed the old, heavy MDF overhead cabinets that came with our Scamp 5er and built new ones from lightweight 3/8" and 1/4" plywood that are larger, lighter and better looking.


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I used our old cabinet to make a cardboard template for the curves, then test-fit the cardboard template to make sure it had the right dimensions.

Our front street-side cabinet are made of pre-finished 3/8" plywood and span the whole length of our loft (which is very nice). Because they connect directly to a cabinet or vertical support (depending on side) it was easier for us to build the "shelf" part first, then attach the front. Many adjustments were made to get the dimensions just right.


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I also made cabinets for the back of the trailer. The new cabinets are a taller, deeper, and longer than the ones they replaced. That's one of the advantages of building them yourself, you can make them better! Once again the new cabinets run full-length from the back of the trailer the the existing fiberglass kitchen cabinets, but this time have a 1/4" gap between their front edge and the existing cabinets. I also cut a notch at the forward ends so they would fit around the fiberglass flange of the kitchen cabinets. They're painted them to match the fiberglass gelcoat.


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Once again I made cardboard templates of all my cabinet parts and test-fit them before I started cutting the 1/4" plywood I used to make them, which was a good thing. The curb and street-side cabinets are slightly different lengths!
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:42 PM   #7
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Once the left and right rear cabinets were up we added a "bridge" cabinet over the back window using the same 3/8" pre-finished plywood we used in the loft. Also like the loft cabinets, the bridge cabinet was built first as a shelf, then the front of the cabinet went on. This made it much easier to get the pieces to line up with the white cabinets I built on either side.


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Just as I did for all the other cabinets, I made cardboard templates of all the pieces and made sure they fit right before cutting any wood. Cardboard is a lot cheaper (like free at an appliance store) and much easier to trim and adjust than plywood.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
I put overhead cabinents in our Scamp.... Made the pattern out of several pieces of cardboard, etc, whatever was laying around the shop. Then taped them together to get the full piece pattern. I would hesitate to say a pattern that fits my trailer would fit another Scamp..... Age, settling, "middle aged spread", difference in production dates (Monday or a Friday) etc, would all be a factor.... The front contour was different from the rear also. Used "L" brackets to hold them by drilling out the rivets holding the curtain brackets and putting SS stove bolts in, then hung the curtains from the bottom of the shelves. Larry
Nice job, Larry!

I decided against using "L" brackets when I put my cabinets in. I glued supports made from a strip of lumber along the top and back edges of the cabinet and put screws through the walls of the trailer into the lumber supports every 10" or so to hold the cabinets in-place. I'm hoping that'll reduce the amount of stress placed on any one spot of my fiberglass shell.
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:35 PM   #9
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David,

What happened to your original cabinets? If you still have them, consider this option...

My front and rear overheads were pretty beat up, but I came up with a simple solution that looks pretty good (albeit heavier). I built and mounted panels and new doors using 3/8" Birch plywood.

And since I did not like the scale and juxtaposition of the original galley overhead cabinet, I built one custom to better fit my taste and needs.
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:03 AM   #10
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:37 PM   #11
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I put overhead cabinents in our Scamp.... Made the pattern out of several pieces of cardboard, etc, whatever was laying around the shop. Then taped them together to get the full piece pattern. I would hesitate to say a pattern that fits my trailer would fit another Scamp..... Age, settling, "middle aged spread", difference in production dates (Monday or a Friday) etc, would all be a factor.... The front contour was different from the rear also. Used "L" brackets to hold them by drilling out the rivets holding the curtain brackets and putting SS stove bolts in, then hung the curtains from the bottom of the shelves. Larry
dear sir, my husband and myself have just purchased a 1983 13' scamp. We have found lots of old leaks and have been removing damaged floor, wood support pieces for the rear benches, and the wooden attachment strips on the benches are junk too. So to say the least, we are really gun shy about putting any type of hole in the fiberglass, how do you ensure the don't leak? Also I like the idea of usilng the curtain rod hole to hold up the upper cabinets, but how did you secure the top? Maybe you could answer this too, any place to find some type of comparible, elephant skin material? I had to strip off the piece that covered the wood for the table supperts because that was rotten from a leak by the window thanks in advance, my name is suger mcallen and my husband is adrian eckert, we like in white pine tn ( as we locals refer to it as the "center of the universe" THANKS
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:00 PM   #12
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dear sir, my husband and myself have just purchased a 1983 13' scamp. We have found lots of old leaks and have been removing damaged floor, wood support pieces for the rear benches, and the wooden attachment strips on the benches are junk too. So to say the least, we are really gun shy about putting any type of hole in the fiberglass, how do you ensure the don't leak? Also I like the idea of usilng the curtain rod hole to hold up the upper cabinets, but how did you secure the top? Maybe you could answer this too, any place to find some type of comparible, elephant skin material? I had to strip off the piece that covered the wood for the table supperts because that was rotten from a leak by the window thanks in advance, my name is suger mcallen and my husband is adrian eckert, we like in white pine tn ( as we locals refer to it as the "center of the universe" THANKS

Hello Suger,
As an owner of a 1988 Scamp, and given the amount of water damage you have already discovered, I would recommend inspecting (and replacing as needed) every rivet running through your fiberglass hull/shell. If it were my trailer, I'd pull everything out of the inside: furniture modules, wall coverings, as well as all of your windows. This way you can see exactly where all of the damage exists, as well as the possible source of water leaks.

This may seem like more work than you're willing to do. But your upper cabinets, kitchen/galley unit and vertical cabinet are all held onto the shell with rivets, which over time become primary sources of leaks. I replaced all of my rivets with stainless steel bolts and nuts. Plus, generous amounts of [b]butyl putty to insure a good seal. (In fact, you can use butyl putty for ALL of your sealing needs. Don't use silicone!)

About your upper cabinets: the originals already have appropriate holes (top and sides) for hanging. There really isn't any good reason to use the curtain rod holes, UNLESS (as Larry did) you are replacing the original upper cabinets with something completely custom.

RJ
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:28 PM   #13
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Once the left and right rear cabinets were up we added a "bridge" cabinet over the back window using the same 3/8" pre-finished plywood we used in the loft. Also like the loft cabinets, the bridge cabinet was built first as a shelf, then the front of the cabinet went on. This made it much easier to get the pieces to line up with the white cabinets I built on either side.


Attachment 24296


Just as I did for all the other cabinets, I made cardboard templates of all the pieces and made sure they fit right before cutting any wood. Cardboard is a lot cheaper (like free at an appliance store) and much easier to trim and adjust than plywood.
I have been studying your pictures. I think your design for the loft cabinets is fantastic. I have been toying with an idea of doing something similar but I didn't know where to begin. I think I am if you don't mind going to completely borrow your design. I think I will do the upper end one a little different to match my decor but I am amazed how good they look. That was at least double the cabinet space in my trailer. I have a 77 Scamp. The roof is a little saggy and part of the reason I am looking at this is to help reinforce the roof as well as gain space. You did a fantastic job with making the lofts look factory. How did you get the rounded corner to look so good? Did you router it?

Thank you all again for all the information!
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
dear sir, So to say the least, we are really gun shy about putting any type of hole in the fiberglass, how do you ensure the don't leak? Also I like the idea of usilng the curtain rod hole to hold up the upper cabinets, but how did you secure the top? THANKS
Sugar--- sorry, I didn't see your post sooner, been busy..... As Robert posted, I also use butyl tape and stainless steel fasteners with ss washers. Just put a small wrap of butyl tape around the fastener on both sides of the ss washer, tighten gently and remove the excess that squishes out. I use nylock type nuts on the inside- usually no-stainless steel as they are less spendy and less prone to rust on the interior. As how I supported the top, I just drilled some holes thru the roof (horrors!!!!) and sealed with butyl tape again. No leaks so far. Larry
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Old 10-20-2009, 12:23 AM   #15
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I do not think I took pictures when I built those cabinets . . . but, no. I did not use a router. I'll throw a quick graphic together to show you how I did it. 'Scuse me if it looks like a cartoon. ;-)

What I did do was cut a square notch out of a 2x2 timber, cut a 45-degree angle on the opposite side (to make more room inside the cabinet), attached my 1/4" ply to the flat edges to line them up with the notch I cut, then inserted a piece of hardware-store-bought 3/4" quarter-round into the notch. Lastly, any gaps in the fit were filled with plastic wood filler and sanded smooth.


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Obviously I'm skipping a few steps here, like the somewhat trial-and-error process of getting the table saw to cut the exact notch I needed to get the quarter-round to line up smoothly with the edges of the 1/4" ply and the hassle of gluing the plywood and quarter-round to the restructured 2x2, but you get the idea.

--Peter

Quote:
I have been studying your pictures. I think your design for the loft cabinets is fantastic. I have been toying with an idea of doing something similar but I didn't know where to begin. I think I am if you don't mind going to completely borrow your design. I think I will do the upper end one a little different to match my decor but I am amazed how good they look. That was at least double the cabinet space in my trailer. I have a 77 Scamp. The roof is a little saggy and part of the reason I am looking at this is to help reinforce the roof as well as gain space. You did a fantastic job with making the lofts look factory. How did you get the rounded corner to look so good? Did you router it?

Thank you all again for all the information!
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:40 AM   #16
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I do not think I took pictures when I built those cabinets . . . but, no. I did not use a router. I'll throw a quick graphic together to show you how I did it. 'Scuse me if it looks like a cartoon. ;-)

What I did do was cut a square notch out of a 2x2 timber, cut a 45-degree angle on the opposite side (to make more room inside the cabinet), attached my 1/4" ply to the flat edges to line them up with the notch I cut, then inserted a piece of hardware-store-bought 3/4" quarter-round into the notch. Lastly, any gaps in the fit were filled with plastic wood filler and sanded smooth.


Attachment 24457


Obviously I'm skipping a few steps here, like the somewhat trial-and-error process of getting the table saw to cut the exact notch I needed to get the quarter-round to line up smoothly with the edges of the 1/4" ply and the hassle of gluing the plywood and quarter-round to the restructured 2x2, but you get the idea.

--Peter
Nice graphic! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us. I feel better now because I was already on the same thought line with how I was planing on doing the round. I had also figured on doing the stock quarter round and notching a 2x2... I had however not thought about 45in it off to make it wedgey... That is a brilliant idea. And now I know it will work too!

I went out last night and started cutting cardboard. I have a pattern for the sink side now, and if time premits I will hopefully get to cut some wood out tonight. I was imagining the look of the finished product as I had my cardboard's hanging on the wall in mock-up. I think we are going to love this layout! I was wondering though off hand do you recall how deep you ended up making your bridge cabinet? Just courious?

Thank you again!
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Old 10-20-2009, 01:04 PM   #17
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. . . I was wondering though off hand do you recall how deep you ended up making your bridge cabinet? Just courious? . . .
My bridge is 11" deep at the point where it meets up with the side cabinets, somewhat deeper as the trailer curves out over the window. You need to take that into consideration before you cut/build the opening for the side cabinets, and you need to take that measurement at the point where the bottom edge of the bridge will lie! If you don't do that and measure from the bottom corner your bridge will come close to or even cover some of your side cabinet door opening.

Also worth mentioning is I glued a double thickness of 1/4" ply in the face of the side cabinets where the bridge attaches.

The center section in my bridge is just slightly wider than a Monopoly board, the side openings (with the roll-top doors) are just over 11" wide. That makes the center section just right for (wait for it) board games and the side cabinets just right for storing the books and magazines we're currently reading.

Another suggestion I've seen, like, but ultimately decided not to include, was a downward-facing opening for a box if tissue. Cool idea . . . and I'm still undecided as to whether I should have made the opening or not.
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:27 PM   #18
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My bridge is 11" deep at the point where it meets up with the side cabinets, somewhat deeper as the trailer curves out over the window. You need to take that into consideration before you cut/build the opening for the side cabinets, and you need to take that measurement at the point where the bottom edge of the bridge will lie! If you don't do that and measure from the bottom corner your bridge will come close to or even cover some of your side cabinet door opening.

Also worth mentioning is I glued a double thickness of 1/4" ply in the face of the side cabinets where the bridge attaches.

The center section in my bridge is just slightly wider than a Monopoly board, the side openings (with the roll-top doors) are just over 11" wide. That makes the center section just right for (wait for it) board games and the side cabinets just right for storing the books and magazines we're currently reading.

Another suggestion I've seen, like, but ultimately decided not to include, was a downward-facing opening for a box if tissue. Cool idea . . . and I'm still undecided as to whether I should have made the opening or not.
Just reading all the great stuff you have done to your Scamp, a few questions

to Attach shelves and such, didi you remove the interior covering? or mak some type of slit? Have you ever use something call a fiberglass weld mount? If so does it hold up well? and how much can it hold? thanks suger mcallen
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:40 PM   #19
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I attach my shelves the same way Scamp did, using screws and pop-top caps. About the only difference when I do it is I make a thick band of butyl putty around the shafts of my screws & rivets just under the pop-cap before screwing them in. The butyl squeezes out all around the pop-capand has to be cleaned up, but it makes a good seal that will flex with the trailer and should last 15 or 20 years. As for the rat fur, my cabinets are clamped right on top of it, and no, I don't cut a slit. I just drill through the stuff and use a utility knife to cut the fuzz off the drill each time.

I can't speak to fiberglass weld mounts very well because I don't use them, but I can't help but think that, correctly done, they would be stronger than just screwing through the shell. They are certainly more water-tight. The down side is they are a lot more work to put in and not very forgiving if they are put in the wrong spot for one's eventual cabinet or shelf placement. If I drill through the shell in the wrong spot all I need do is move my screw over and fill the errant hole with marine epoxy putty. Problem solved.

Quote:
Just reading all the great stuff you have done to your Scamp, a few questions

to Attach shelves and such, didi you remove the interior covering? or mak some type of slit? Have you ever use something call a fiberglass weld mount? If so does it hold up well? and how much can it hold? thanks suger mcallen
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:17 PM   #20
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My bridge is 11" deep at the point where it meets up with the side cabinets, somewhat deeper as the trailer curves out over the window. You need to take that into consideration before you cut/build the opening for the side cabinets, and you need to take that measurement at the point where the bottom edge of the bridge will lie! If you don't do that and measure from the bottom corner your bridge will come close to or even cover some of your side cabinet door opening.

Also worth mentioning is I glued a double thickness of 1/4" ply in the face of the side cabinets where the bridge attaches.

The center section in my bridge is just slightly wider than a Monopoly board, the side openings (with the roll-top doors) are just over 11" wide. That makes the center section just right for (wait for it) board games and the side cabinets just right for storing the books and magazines we're currently reading.

Another suggestion I've seen, like, but ultimately decided not to include, was a downward-facing opening for a box if tissue. Cool idea . . . and I'm still undecided as to whether I should have made the opening or not.
Ok.... I hope this works!

Two times now I have written up several pages of reply and when I hit the post button I got an error and it was all goon. I think I may have finally fixed it. Thou I have pretty much forgotten what I was saying

Couple nights ago I got out to the trailer and was able to make some card board cutouts. And I was surprised how much work that ended up being. The next night I was able to cut out some ply for my first attempt to shape the wood. Now I have decided to use a 1/4" veneer simply because it was cheaper and a bit stronger than the other stuff I could find. It is actually an under layment but it does have a decent finish to it. Since I will be painting the cabinets with an acrylic (Epoxy something) appliance paint The grain style to me does not matter. So back to the cutting (Fun Part) I stenciled out the first piece. I started on the driver side bottom piece first. After about 30 trips back and forth from the shop to the trailer I finally had it shaped up pretty well. I like the fit it is pretty clean. What I found amazing was the amount of sag and droop in my fiberglass walls. Nothing uniform AT ALL! But that aside I thing I have the process down. I picked up some 3/4 - 1/4 Rounds as you used and experimented with the layout for the corner. When I started to work on the shaping for the face piece I ran into a pretty good snag. My ceiling is drooping a bit in one spot. And I am not sure what to do about it. If I shape the cabinet to the roof it is going to look "FUNKY MONKEY"... I tried to push up on the roof and I was not really able to move it much. It appears that the factory cabinet over the cook top is the issue. The unit has the wrought iron supports attached and they appear to be actually pulling the roof down around the upper cabinet. I never noticed this before. So I will have to come up with something. Also I found some disturbing evidence of a roof leak that is leaching water under the ensolite. I will have to investigate that as well but I am glad I found it now rather than in spring. Yakima is a desert but it still gets pretty snowy here . All that being said I was out in ye-old garage working on our new cabinets when my dear littlie wifey popped her head in to say hi and see what I was up to? She cheerfully reminded me that I have about 2,000+ (Slightly exaggerated) Projects that I need to finish before snow flys. That are far more important (And she is right) than our cabinet situation in the trailer. I got so excited about this project (that I have been wanting to take on since I bought the thing) that I forgot that I really donít have time to work on it right now. I do so much appreciate all of the advice and assistance however. I will continue to post as I finish aspects of the project.

I hope that this thread is helpful to other owners in the mean time.

I wanted to take a moment to list a few of my comments on the advice given, as I have been researching this project for some time.

Hanging the cabinets - I believe that wood blocks or strip glued and or glassed to the cupboard drilled though and bolted with SS hardware is the best method for installation. Using wood will provide an even stress point load to the cabinet walls and bottom. Also wood will absorb and muffle vibrations and minimize vibration transfer into the fiberglass. This dampening effect is also reversed and vibrations in the fiberglass wall will also not be transferred as easily into the structure of the cabinet. This is less of an issue with the stock fiberglass cabinets due to the fact that they are the same materials and will vibrate ad the same frequency. Using a "bolt-though" design for hardware will in effect float in the hole though the wall. This will also limit direct vibration impact into the gel coat and substructure of the wall. Again, limiting the chance of gel coat fatigue and stress cracking. You can also tighten the bolts after a few months of travel because the wood and whatnot will expand and contract after a while. You cannot re torque pop rivets. (Correct me if I am wrong) -- Side note these are all very minor issues... My Scampís gel coat is so cracked it looks like varicose veins!!!

Sealing the holes - "butyl tape and stainless steel fasteners with SS washers" Agree all the way. I have dun the same with all of the other mods/repairs I have preformed. One word of caution: Stainless to stainless has a habit of galling. I recommend using a galvanized or nickel plated nut on the inside of the connection, on the stainless bolt. I would still use a stainless washer behind the nut to prevent later corrosion. Moisture seams to be a huge problem in my trailer... I have had some issues already with galvanized hardware. ( I use a catalytic heater at time present)

Not removing or slicing the ensolite - Also adds to the benefits of the afore mentioned. Shock absorption. Also I learned the hard way... On an older rig the stuff shrinks with time and so is tightly stretched around the walls.. When I cut a small hole for one of my minor mods it grew to a huge split. I had a dastardly time trying to fix it. I do not recommend trying to slit it or remove a specific section of it because It might be hard to hide the edges. Also in-tact is a good vapor barrier for the inside fiberglass walls. I imagine that cutting into it would allow condensation to gather behind, and if you are putting wood against the glass you could have a quick mold problem, not to mention rot.

Tissue Slot - I also had been toying with that addition. But I want to do something unique with it, especially since I am completely ripping off the design of the rest of it. I will post about it later if I can come up with something. But there is only so many ways to dispense tissue!
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