Screw holes? - Page 4 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-08-2011, 07:46 AM   #43
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I may have gotten the squeeze tube in home depot (can't remember) The canister i definitely got in Lowes.... You did get the White?___
They have a brown construction adhesive and stay away from that as it gets hard and brittle
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:58 AM   #44
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I may have gotten the squeeze tube in home depot (can't remember) The canister i definitely got in Lowes.... You did get the White?___
They have a brown construction adhesive and stay away from that as it gets hard and brittle
When I first approached the area I saw all kinds of Locktite PL adhesives but that didn't seem like what I wanted. Then a little farther down, mixed in with the silicones, was the PL Door,Window,and Siding "Sealant". It was available in gray or white. I got the white. Tube looks like the one you posted.

Kip
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:02 AM   #45
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Perfect ....... i did grab the wrong one before (not pictured) and i paid dearly for that mistake.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:54 PM   #46
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Kip.....
I went looking around today to find the squeezable tube i told you about and then i realized it wasn't the PL Polyurethane.... It was actually PolySeamseal Adhesive caulk that i have been using for the quick jobs like putting a cap back on etc.
sorry for the mistake and the other stuff is good on the bigger jobs.
Joe
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:53 AM   #47
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Kip.....
I went looking around today to find the squeezable tube i told you about and then i realized it wasn't the PL Polyurethane.... It was actually PolySeamseal Adhesive caulk that i have been using for the quick jobs like putting a cap back on etc.
sorry for the mistake and the other stuff is good on the bigger jobs.
Joe
Joe,
Where did you get the PolySeamseal? Does it remain plyable and can things be taken apart, if need be, down the road? The word "adhesive" is a bit scary!

My tube of PL Polyurathane was exactly like yours except the word LocTite was in enlarged letters at the top. I took it back yesterday and went through the box and found a tube exactly like yours. Apparently they have changed the packaging a bit. The ingrediance in the second tube is the same consistancy as the first, so recon it is just "THICK" stuff.

The "TEST" spots I did Monday, comparing the PL to the 100% silicone, had interesting results.

They both stuck equally to the camper gelcoat, the rivit head, and inside the snap cap. The difference being that the Silicone was cured through and through, while the PL was still "damp" where it touched the surfaces.

The silicone pealed off, pretty much as one piece while the PL was more sticky and clung to the parts like chewing gum on the bottom of a shoe. It was harder to remove. Not sure if that is good or bad.

The wire I used to puncture the PL tube still felt a bit "tacky" where the PL remained. Went ahead and used the PL to replace 6 snap caps that came off when I washed the trailer. More on that in the next post.

Kip
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:07 AM   #48
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Joe,
Where did you get the PolySeamseal? Does it remain plyable and can things be taken apart, if need be, down the road? The word "adhesive" is a bit scary!
It was either lowes or home depot that i got it....not sure but leaning towards lowes....The polyseamseal does remain plyable..... i keep it in the basement and i can easily knead the tube with two fingers

My tube of PL Polyurathane was exactly like yours except the word LocTite was in enlarged letters at the top. I took it back yesterday and went through the box and found a tube exactly like yours. Apparently they have changed the packaging a bit. The ingrediance in the second tube is the same consistancy as the first, so recon it is just "THICK" stuff.
My tube of PL is about a year and a half old now and maybe they changed the formula some

The "TEST" spots I did Monday, comparing the PL to the 100% silicone, had interesting results.

They both stuck equally to the camper gelcoat, the rivit head, and inside the snap cap. The difference being that the Silicone was cured through and through, while the PL was still "damp" where it touched the surfaces.

The silicone pealed off, pretty much as one piece while the PL was more sticky and clung to the parts like chewing gum on the bottom of a shoe. It was harder to remove. Not sure if that is good or bad.
to me chewing gum characteristics would be a better seal as silicone over time would let water underneath.....cleanup will always be a problem no matter what you use

The wire I used to puncture the PL tube still felt a bit "tacky" where the PL remained. Went ahead and used the PL to replace 6 snap caps that came off when I washed the trailer. More on that in the next post.
My snap caps are still sitting there in great shape and it's been quite a while since i did them..... the ones i did with polyseamseal are also in good shape and being it's really not as thick may be an easier remedy for you

Kip
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:42 AM   #49
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Thanks Joe,

You may be right about the "Chewing Gum" effect being better.
I replaced 6 caps yesterday with the PL, so time will tell! There are at least that many more that have been replaced already and will likely need attention soon.

As posted earlier, when I washed my 03 Casita for the first time, several of the snap caps came off. Generally, the silicone, shaped like the inside of the snap cap, was still stuck to the rivit head and roof. The inside of the snap cap was pretty clean. This suggested that the silicone just didn't like snap cap plastic, or there was something inside the cap from manufacturing that needed to be cleaned out before an adhesive could stick properly. I checked other caps that had been replaced and they all had movement laterally. Gently, very gently, pulling up on them and they came off, leaving the silicone stuck to the rivit and top. So, it seems the caps needed to be mechanically anchored.

The trial and error began there.

There are probably others that have found a more permenant way of anchoring the replacement caps, but none have come forward, that I have observed, with their solutions, other than replacing the rivits and bases, which I would like to not do if possible and Murthey's Law follows me like a curse. For some reason when I attempt to drill the head off a rivit the whole thing will start spinning and even if I can get my wife to find the other end of the rivit and hold it steady and get the thing removed, the new rivit doesn't always pull down tight before it POPS. Then I get to start all over. Also the rivits that Casita uses are fairly strong and I get concerned about the gelcoat cracking loose when the new rivit is installed. I have noticed that in a lot of the rivit locations, the fiberglass is actually indented somewhat from the pressure of the first rivit installed.

I've tried several things that didn't work and one that has some promise.
As stated earlier, someone(s) may have already done this, but I haven't read anything other than sticking new caps back on with some type of sealer or adhesive.

See the next post.

Kip
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:39 AM   #50
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Time will tell if this fix works. But recon it was worth a try.

FWIW as most know, a POP RIVIT is basically two parts. One is the tube with a "head" on one end. The other is the shaft with a ball on one end, yada yada! The shaft stays inside the tube because it has been "Crimped" a tiny bit in one or more sections to cause it to bind inside the tube. The rivits the previous owner gave me have the shaft crimped in the middle. The ARROW brand and ACE hardware brand are crimped near the ball. I used the latter! The rivit size is 3/16".

Of course, the rivits in the Casita have the hole exposed on the exterior where the shaft popped loose and was removed. The holes will vary some in depth. That depth can be measured by inserting a small nail and marking it.

I removed the shaft from the tube of a new Ace or Arrow rivit and cut the shaft, near the ball, shorter than the measured depth of the hole. (NOTE it is important that the shaft be shorter than the hole is deep, so as to not interfere with the rivits integrety) Then squeeze a little sealer into the trailer rivit hole and insert the shaft into the trailer rivit by pushing hard or lightly tapping, so that only the ball is still exposed. The crimp, near the ball, binds well enough that pliers are require to remove the shaft. That ball gives the sealer something additional to wrap around and cling to. It doesnt stick up enough to keep the cap from touching the roof. This anchor should help keep the cap from lifting off, with another step.

But there is still the lateral motion and the cap being slick inside.

The trailer rivit head does not sit flat against the roof because the rivit was installed through a cap "base". Parts of the base may or may not still be under the rivit head, but the rivit head still sticks up some. Although the bare cap will still reach the roof, it still needs a mechanical anchor. From the manufacturer, the cap is mechanically held in place by snapping it into the plastic base which is held on by the rivit. I opened the hole in a cap base just enough that it will slip over the trailer rivit head and sit flat on the roof, as the original base did.

In order of installation:

Squeeze sealer into the rivit hole.

Push or tap a short rivit shaft into the hole until only the ball is exposed.

Put sealer on top of rivit and around edges to seal against water and give the base something to stick to.

Snap the cap onto the base and fill with sealer.

Push that assemble down over the rivit/shaft assembly untill the cap touches the roof.

Remove sealer that squeezed out around the cap.

"Hopefully" the sealer squeezing around the shaft ball and between the cap base and ball and rivit will create a bond tighter than just filling a cap with sealer and sticking it on. Also the base slipping down around the rivit head stopped all lateral movement.

FWIW I also did this on a couple, using aluminum nails instead of rivit shafts. The nails are for siding and have fairly large heads, about the size of the rivit heads and are installed with about 1/8" gap above the rivit head. This required more time as the nail shafts are too large and had to be turned down to the correct diameter. Then dimpled the shaft close to the head for the desired bind. I figured that when the sealer set up under the head, the nail would have to pull out of the rivit before the cap and base would come off. But is can still be pulled out with pliers.

Yeah I know. Somebody that is RIVIT SKILLFUL could likely do it without all the fanfare.

Kip
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:11 PM   #51
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.......................................... (NOTE it is important that the shaft be shorter than the hole is deep, so as to not interfere with the rivits integrety) ................................Kip
If I understand your issue correctly you are trying to attach/seal snap fastener caps to fiberglass using a sealant and pop rivets. Are you also trying to use pop rivets in blind (not through) holes? I don’t know if this would work well. If in the place of attachment the thickness of whatever is too thick for pop rivets and you indeed have blind holes than using screws could be a better option.

I had snap caps on my boat and used 5200 between snap with rivet assemblies and fiberglass. The remaining hole in the rivet could also be filled with 5200. Mounting snap fasteners is rather permanent so removal is unlikely. Pop rivets were longer than the fiberglass thickness.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:30 PM   #52
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If I understand your issue correctly you are trying to attach/seal snap fastener caps to fiberglass using a sealant and pop rivets. Are you also trying to use pop rivets in blind (not through) holes? I don’t know if this would work well. If in the place of attachment the thickness of whatever is too thick for pop rivets and you indeed have blind holes than using screws could be a better option.

I had snap caps on my boat and used 5200 between snap with rivet assemblies and fiberglass. The remaining hole in the rivet could also be filled with 5200. Mounting snap fasteners is rather permanent so removal is unlikely. Pop rivets were longer than the fiberglass thickness.
Not sure I'm following you.

Casita trailers are single wall. The cabinets and other stuff are secured by rivits that go through the roof/walls and have caps on the outside for trim and water protection. Time and sun result in those caps and their bases breaking off, leaving the rivit head exposed.

The picture you sent shows 3 rivits . The one on the right is a finished application. That is basicly what is left once the Snap cap and it's base have come loose and gone away. The remaining hole that goes from the rivit head down to the ball is just sitting there serving no real purpose once the rivit is installed.

I'm not trying to install a smaller rivit in the hole of the larger rivit. Just the ball end of a shaft from another 3/16" rivit. The shaft goes into the established rivit with the ball left exposed.

The top of the rivits in question don't sit flush with the top as illustrated in the picture, because they originally went through a cap base, then through the roof/wall then through whatever they are holding in place below.

My idea is to push/tap an altered shaft down the hole from the outside and let its crimp hold it in place. Then the new altered base with cap attached to it will sit down and encompance the ball on top of the shaft as well as the encircle the rivit head.

If the sealer adhears to the ball, rivit and roof as I hope, it should be a fairly long lasting "Fix".

I did try to use a screw to insert inside the established rivit, but could not find an aluminum screw of the right dimensions. The crimped shafts are tight enough that pliers are needed for their removal. Also thought about a super adhesive. But those caps do give up and I wanted a way to be able to remove their remains and install new ones.

Kip
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:58 PM   #53
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Thank you for the explanation. I did not know that Casita is using pop rivets to hold cabinets in place. If I understand you correctly it seems that your fix is rather cosmetic. The rivet will likely be loose if its base for the snap cover is gone and this would be my concern. A loose rivet in motion induced vibration would be more prone to failure than a tight rivet. For just a cosmetic cover you could use these caps – perhaps some modification would be required. TAP-CAPS® Screw Covers
I don’t know if it is possible to drill out rivets with lost caps, but if it is, wouldn’t the re-installation be an easier route.

I hope that Casita used the closed-end pop rivets to prevent leaking in case of lost covers. Closed End Self Sealing Rivets : Riveting Tools : Rivits : Hanson Rivet & Supply Co. Inc.

George.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:13 PM   #54
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Yes you can drill out the rivets, that is most likely the best way to remove any rivet.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:59 AM   #55
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peterh has described the best solution to properly filling holes in fiberglass. Body putty is much too brittle, true epoxy is the correct way to go. Good luck
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:21 AM   #56
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I tried the Marine-Tex wooden stick process and it was such a pain that after one hole I threw it all in the trash. The product was too runny to be trying to fill holes in a vertical surface with a stick. I probably wouldn't even do that on a horizontal surface. If I had one of those deluxe kits with syringes and such maybe...

I ended up using Donna's epoxy putty. It is a real 2-part epoxy, and way easier to use, though hard to get as I had to order it by mail.

My process was to file out each hole a little with a conical bladed file, to get to raw fiberglass and remove any flaring, then clean and wipe with MEK. Then, wearing latex gloves, I poked a tiny sausage-shaped piece of the epoxy putty in each hole, with a little extra sticking out. I mashed and molded the part that was sticking out into a raised button-like lump, then merely wiped the haze from around the button with a solvent. Later I painted each lump with almond colored touch up paint used for sinks and tubs to blend.

The result may not be inconspicuous enough for some, but I thought trying to blend it flush with the surface would be a big pain. Also, a lot more likely to be inadequate, without being able to backstop from the inside and cram the stuff into the hole with pressure. I wouldn't trust a runnier product and a popsicle stick at all. A hole could easily look plugged and have a hairline crack or fissure at the edge. I could see this happening every time I took a pass at the hole with the Marine Tex. I would want to apply that stuff with a syringe and maybe a backstop to make sure it was squeezed up against the sides of the hole.

Anyway, with my method, each hole has a little mushroom that completely covers it. Since it is visibly sealed with the exterior surface, a perfect seal within the hole shouldn't even be necessary. I bought a moisture meter and will be doing some tests with a hose soon, so we'll see how it worked.
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