Stuff Welded On To Frame - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-09-2007, 11:00 AM   #1
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Anyone with experience getting these add-ons done?
I'd like to put pedal-bikes/lawn chairs on to the back of my Boler. Are these commonly done? What weight do they hold? Someone asked about an ATV holder, and I'd assume that the overlay to cantelever would require extensive (expensive) intervention, throw off the tongue weight, exceed axle capacity or something, but I'm just looking for a tie-down shelf for miscellaneous.
(I saw this scamp on ebay a few weeks ago)
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:12 PM   #2
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Our Scamp 5r has a factory installed receiver hitch at the rear. I suggest you ask Scamp how much weight is max.

While the Scamp receiver is welded on, I think retrofit receivers are bolted on.
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:15 PM   #3
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I'd assume that the overlay to cantelever would require extensive (expensive) intervention, throw off the tongue weight, exceed axle capacity or something, but I'm just looking for a tie-down shelf for miscellaneous.
Bingo. Every pound you load back there unloads tongue weight and stresses the frame. That rack alone probably weighs 30 lbs. Bicycles on a rack have been known to be enough weight to cause towability problems. I'd suggest finding another solution.

Roger
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:24 PM   #4
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Anyone with experience getting these add-ons done?
I'd like to put pedal-bikes/lawn chairs on to the back of my Boler. Are these commonly done? What weight do they hold? Someone asked about an ATV holder, and I'd assume that the overlay to cantelever would require extensive (expensive) intervention, throw off the tongue weight, exceed axle capacity or something, but I'm just looking for a tie-down shelf for miscellaneous.
(I saw this scamp on ebay a few weeks ago)
I asked this same question a few months ago and here is what I learned from several users.

If your Boler has the original frame and axle, it's not recommended for several reasons, added weight, weight distribution, tongue weight...etc.

A 2" hitch weighs about 25 lbs. A bike rack for 4 bikes weighs about 65 lbs. 4 bikes would wiegh over 100 lbs, So you almost added another 200lbs to your 900lb Boler, not too mention what ever supplies you have put inside.

Some people have welded extra metal to their frame to strengthen it, or built all new frames altogether and then added 2" hitch to the back where you can then add a bike rack or a flat rack for carrying stuff.

What I was looking to do was to add a bike carrier to mine. Instead I bought a 4 bike carrier that slides into my 2" hitch on my truck. On the back of the bike carrier is a trailer ball hitch that can pull up to 3500lbs. So I have my truck, then the bikes and then the boler. These bike racks sell for around $100-$200 dollars. I know this doesnt't help with extra storage but it's great for bikes!

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Old 07-09-2007, 01:40 PM   #5
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I like that a lot Where'd you find that?

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What I was looking to do was to add a bike carrier to mine. Instead I bought a 4 bike carrier that slides into my 2" hitch on my truck. On the back of the bike carrier is a trailer ball hitch that can pull up to 3500lbs. So I have my truck, then the bikes and then the boler. These bike racks sell for around $100-$200 dollars. I know this doesnt't help with extra storage but it's great for bikes!
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Old 07-09-2007, 02:01 PM   #6
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A 2" hitch weighs about 25 lbs. A bike rack for 4 bikes weighs about 65 lbs. 4 bikes would wiegh over 100 lbs, So you almost added another 200lbs to your 900lb Boler, not too mention what ever supplies you have put inside.
(1) a 2" hitch suitable for the bumper of a Boler weighs about 2 pounds.
(2) not all bike racks need to support 4 bikes. I have one for 2 bikes that weighs about 6 pounds.
(2) a kids bike and a parents bike weighs about 40 pounds.

Big difference between 200 pounds and 50 pounds.

What Boler weighs 900 pounds? Maybe one devoid of cushions, water, battery, propane, dishes, food, linens, etc. Not representative of its camping state. My old 1300 was 1200 pounds dry and 1800 pounds loaded for camping. (verified at a weigh scale).

So, yes, you can argue that 4 or 8 bikes would add too much weight, and I would concede. But I argue that a couple of bikes is not that much weight.

I ran 2 adult bikes plus one kids bike on the back of our 1300 with a receiver that I welded to the trailer myself and had no trouble. The weight was split between the frame and the spare tire holder.

Since Suzanne didn't specify the parameters, you can't quantify the answer.
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Old 07-09-2007, 02:25 PM   #7
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Since Suzanne didn't specify the parameters, you can't quantify the answer.
Well, I'm just answering her question with what I've learned from others on here as I was in her same situation within the past 2 months. Wouldn't want her to do something to her boler that would risk the integrity of it.

You're right, not all bike racks have to hold 4 bikes and yes, they do make racks for 1, 2, 3 and 4 bikes and mine is for 4 bikes and weighs 65 pounds. Solid plate steel. Me and my wife bring our bikes and if friends come along for the trip, it's nice to have the option to add a few more if needed.

By getting a bike rack that has a ball on it that a camper can be attached to, it eliminates all questions for added weight as the is no added weight. The difference between a bike rack with and with the trailer ball was only $30.

My 74 boler, as per the brochere I have and the stickers inside the cupboard doors tell me it's 900 lbs dry and has a tongue weight of 90lbs.

I've even been told to tow the boler with an empty water tank, as it causes the balance to be thrown off when full of water.
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Old 07-09-2007, 02:39 PM   #8
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Herb, just welding a 2" receiver tube on the bumper doesn't weigh much. Bolting or welding a 2" receiver hitch on would be heavier; how much heavier depends on how much structure is installed. A Thule 912 two-bike hitch is pretty representative of the genre, and Amazon lists the shipping weight as 37.6 lbs. Subtract a couple of pounds of box, and you've got an approximate bike rack weight of 35 lbs.

Picking an average priced comfort bike, a Jeep Overland S Men's Comfort Bike, the shipping weight is listed as 45.4 lbs, so presuming 5.4 lbs of packing material (maybe a little more), the weight of the bike would be roughly 40 lbs.

So, two 40 lb bikes, a 35 lb rack, and say 15 lbs of steel for a nicely built 2" bike rack receiver and you're reasonably up to 130 lbs cantelevered out several feet behind the axle to unload tongue weight and stress the frame. I'd suggest that to be a significant amount of weight hanging off the rear of a Boler frame.

Roger
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Old 07-09-2007, 02:50 PM   #9
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Someone makes a double receiver hitch and you could get a receiver bicycle rack to fit on that so the weight is on your tug and not the trailer.

Steve
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Old 07-09-2007, 02:56 PM   #10
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Well, here's a suggestion -- Call Scamp and Casita (as the most lookalike eggs in production)and ask them if they would recommend adding 50 lbs behind the bumper on a 13' trailer as far as sway and handling go.

One way to change that is move a spare tire (if it exists) from the rear to the front of the egg.

I certainly wouldn't carry water jugs or a generator out the back and have considered moving my spare tire to the front anyway (It only took one almost out of control sway incident while towing my 91S13 with a 1/2 ton Dodge pickup to convince me that things can go south in a hurry!).

The big potential problem I see with the bike rack on the extended ball mount is that it may work just fine on a truck with a heavy curb weight, rigid tires and esp a long wheelbase, but might be a sway problem on a different vehicle.
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:05 PM   #11
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I like that a lot Where'd you find that?
Well here in Canada, I bought it at a store called Princess Auto. They have all sorts of neat stuff for do it yourselfers and trailer builders.

It was $149.99 cdn funds. I am not sure how far you are from the Canada/BC border you are, but most Princess Auto's in Canada should have them. It's rated to pull a 3500lbs trailer behind.

What I really like about it is that you can tilt it down and out of the way by simply pulling out a locking pin, so you can open your tailgate, or a rear door on a van.

We also have a Chevy Venture that we use it on. It works great.

I just found it on Amazon.com for $119.99.

Here is the link:
http://www.amazon.com/Buyers-Bike-Rack/dp/B0000AXA2A




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Old 07-09-2007, 06:37 PM   #12
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One potential problem to watch for with the hitch-mounted rack is that it extended the hitch ball significantly further back. In Jayson's case this may not be too bad, because the rig combines a small trailer with a large and long-wheelbase truck; however, with more common combinations shifting the tongue weight that far back could cause significant problems with rear axle load and trailer stability.

For instance, a two-foot extension would be a 50% increase in the distance from rear axle to ball for many tow vehicles (including my van), and thus would increase the amount of load transferred from front axle to rear axle by 50%. In addition, the front tires would then need to apply 50% more lateral (steering) force to get the same guiding force applied to the trailer to start a turn or keep it from yawing.

In general, hitch extensions are undesirable... although each case needs to be considered individually.
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:32 PM   #13
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One potential problem to watch for with the hitch-mounted rack is that it extended the hitch ball significantly further back. In Jayson's case this may not be too bad, because the rig combines a small trailer with a large and long-wheelbase truck; however, with more common combinations shifting the tongue weight that far back could cause significant problems with rear axle load and trailer stability.

For instance, a two-foot extension would be a 50% increase in the distance from rear axle to ball for many tow vehicles (including my van), and thus would increase the amount of load transferred from front axle to rear axle by 50%. In addition, the front tires would then need to apply 50% more lateral (steering) force to get the same guiding force applied to the trailer to start a turn or keep it from yawing.

In general, hitch extensions are undesirable... although each case needs to be considered individually.
I kind of predicted you would also mention something about the number of additional potential points of failure between TV and trailer... I was at princess lotto this weekend looking at a 14" hitch extension in hopes it would move the trailer back far enough to let me open my tire carrier but decided against it for all of the above collective reasons...
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:40 AM   #14
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Seems I have read on another thread that extending the trailer behind the axle and adding weight back there increases the risk of sway when traveling on highways and changing lanes.
Maybe others can expand about this???
I have seen trailers flip due to sway if it was due to bad loading of this I do not know but after seing the aftermath of such a wreck and the havoke it caused on I-95 I wouldn't do anything to increase the chances of having this happen.
Gerry the canoebuilder
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