Towing a 16' Scamp with small diesel - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-04-2015, 12:32 PM   #15
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Name: Ray
Trailer: 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe
Missouri
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True, Jon! 😊

Because of the down-sloping shape on the back of the Ford Escape, I sometimes
wonder how much "vehicle shadow" I am actually getting on the front of my
Scamp13.

The other significant aerodynamic drag characteristic shared by both the Scamp16
and the Scamp13 is the relatively flat back of both trailers. (I know that both have
more rounded edges and corners than some, but I think that flat backside still exacts
a real drag penalty.) I have often wondered about the drag penalty for trailers that have
the entry/exit door on a flat back side of the trailer.

The shape of the teardrop trailers eliminates the vacuum created by dragging along
that large flat plate area and thus creates a lowered aerodynamic drag.

Ray


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Old 04-04-2015, 12:49 PM   #16
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Towing a 16' Scamp with small diesel

While diesel engines and turbocharged engines both have great
high-torque@low-rpm characteristics, you also might look at
acquisition costs, operation costs, and brand reliability.

When my wife wanted me to get a tow vehicle that would pull
the next size larger trailer (16ft/17ft), I seriously considered a
diesel tow vehicle. (My son has two VW Jetta TDI vehicles [one
sedan and one wagon] and a larger RAM diesel truck that he
uses to pull heavy horse/farm trailers.)

For multiple brands, they wanted additional money for the
diesel engine option on a new purchase (i.e. higher acquisition
cost).

With the current cost difference in diesel fuel, a similar 25 mpg
for both gas and diesel vehicles usually results in a higher cost/mile
for the diesel vehicle.

With my Ford Ecoboost 2.0L, I usually burn premium while
towing (the Ford owners manual actually says to do that) and
mid-grade or regular for for around town driving.

For a true towing fuel cost comparison, I guess you would have
to look at the price difference between diesel fuel and premium
gasoline for those towing miles.

Just my 2 cents worth .....

As always, YMMV.

Ray
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Old 04-04-2015, 01:52 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
As to tongue weight our Scamp 16 has had a 200 pound tongue for 4 years. No issues what so ever. We only carry one Propane tank.
On the other hand I have the same Scamp 16 as Norm in layout (side bath) and age and find that with only 200lbs on the tongue the tow is not as solid as I would like when traveling at highway speeds over 55mph. Loaded for camping without water in any tanks & one propane tank it weighs in between 2500/2600lbs (including tongue weight). The trailer has no AC but it does have an awning, rock guard and bathroom etc.

Having at least 250lbs on the tongue is a much more comfortable/solid tow for me. The tongue weight needed for a solid tow works out to be the same situation pulling with my larger truck as it was when pulling with the smaller Subaru Outback (its low tongue weight allowance of only 200lbs was a very real draw back for me).
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Old 04-04-2015, 03:24 PM   #18
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Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
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The tongue weight is the limiting factor on the VW and lots of the smaller cars / wagons.
The JSW (Jetta Sport Wagon) Has towing springs etc and there are available AirLift air bags for the rear to bring the wagon back to the proper level.
Tests in the late 70s indicated that the air bags had very much the same positive effect as a weight distributing hitch.
The Westfalia hitch I have installed is the VW OEM hitch in the rest of the world.
The TUV specifications are as good as the DOT/ASME , but lots on the forum dismiss the European standards deferring to the lawyers and tort system.
The DMF ( correct Dual Mass Flywheel) has springs within the unit. The crankshaft turns the "inner" flywheel and the outer flywheel is coupled with springs that compress to allow the compliance between the changing speed of the crankshaft as the engine turns and the (more or less) constant speed of the transmission at road speed.
The constant compressing and releasing of the springs will eventually cause the spring to fatigue fracture and then rattle.
Four cylinder engines are particularly prone to the torsional vibrations since the power impulses do not overlap like engines with more than four.
The more cylinders the smoother.
The JSW makes a good tow car since it handles good with and without the trailer.
The low center of gravity and independent rear end with forward center of gravity makes a comfortable tow. The damping of the system is good and the Scamp and JSW are a good match.
I have extended the frame of the scamp to allow moving the side bath to the front and as a side benefit the longer tongue will reduce the hitch weight and make the trailer more stable at the cost of being able to back and turn quickly and tight.
Since I don't do much of that it is all to the good!
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Old 04-04-2015, 03:34 PM   #19
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JD,

I don't understand how you move the side bath to the front. Would you provide pictures?
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Old 04-04-2015, 08:24 PM   #20
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All that you have to do is to extend the frame rails full width past the front of the shell and use the center 4' between them to build the dropped shower pan and black tank.
I used a pan from a transtar 37" X 24" with the frame made to fit it.
I have posted some pictures somewhere here on the forum.
The side bath was much too short to use the shower while the new bath floor is the same level as the main floor and the roof is higher in the front than the side as well.
This is pretty much still a work in progress.


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Old 04-04-2015, 09:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
I have towed my 16' Scamp with our 2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI with no problems.
This was last from Mineral Wells TX through Austin to Mobile in the hot part of the summer.
he limitation is with the hitch loading and not so much the trailer weight.
The JSW is equipped with the DSG transmission.
140 hp, but 270 ft of torque moves the wagon and trailer nicely.
25 MPG towing 62 - 65 mph.
Of course if the US VW does not recommend the towing at the limit the UK VW does then you are the devil himself for violating VW owner's manual's limitations and every lawyer in the US will line up to litigate.
The Touareg is good for lots.
I have a Jetta TDI wagon that will be towing a 515 kg empty/ 750 kg loaded trailer. In Europe this is completely normal. The Golf TDI was tow vehicle of the year ;-) while here my wagon is rated for 500 kg.
Interesting to read how different it is here. I wish I knew why that is so.
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:05 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by marijke View Post
I have a Jetta TDI wagon that will be towing a 515 kg empty/ 750 kg loaded trailer. In Europe this is completely normal. The Golf TDI was tow vehicle of the year ;-) while here my wagon is rated for 500 kg.
Interesting to read how different it is here. I wish I knew why that is so.
Marijke... Many of us wonder the same thing. The link in post #1 here pretty much explains the issues.... Off shore VS North American towing styles
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:07 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
All that you have to do is to extend the frame rails full width past the front of the shell and use the center 4' between them to build the dropped shower pan and black tank.
I used a pan from a transtar 37" X 24" with the frame made to fit it.
I have posted some pictures somewhere here on the forum.
The side bath was much too short to use the shower while the new bath floor is the same level as the main floor and the roof is higher in the front than the side as well.
This is pretty much still a work in progress.


Nice work JD. It's always good to see improvement/upgrade mods being done to trailer and TV.
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:50 AM   #24
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Trailer: 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe
Missouri
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Tom,

If you get a diesel or turbo tow vehicle, I hope you will let us know what you got and how
it works out. Please! ..... 😉

Since both the diesel and turbo were extra cost options on a new purchase, I came very
close to getting a diesel tug. If my cousin had not retired from the KC Ford plant and
told me about the power of his recent Ecoboost acquisition ..... who knows, I might have
diesel tow vehicle today? 😉

Ray


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Old 04-05-2015, 11:22 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marijke View Post
I have a Jetta TDI wagon that will be towing a 515 kg empty/ 750 kg loaded trailer. In Europe this is completely normal. The Golf TDI was tow vehicle of the year ;-) while here my wagon is rated for 500 kg.
Interesting to read how different it is here. I wish I knew why that is so.
Not just different towing practises in NA (we don't have low tow speed ratings across whole countries ) but there was video posted on the topic previously where VW acknowledged that they are not built the same for the NA market as they are for the European market. Different suspension components for one thing.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:37 AM   #26
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With my Ford Ecoboost 2.0L,

Ray
Your newish 2.0L EB is impressive Ray. The older Escapes even with the V6 did not have a lot of towing power. The chart below also shows the huge differences in performance even when vehicles are listed in the same tow rating groups.

Tom... you can see how well the older gas BMW X3 performs. Nice!!!

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Old 04-05-2015, 12:14 PM   #27
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Just a data point.

I have now personally met 3 people towing with 4 cylinder VW diesels, 2 were towing Altos and the third a 20-24 foot more traditional trailer. All were set up by Can-AM RV. All owners stated their trailers towed very well and were happy with their VWs as a tow vehicle.

I did look under one of the VWs and could see that Can-AM appeared to add a stiffening element to the chassis.
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Old 04-05-2015, 03:23 PM   #28
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Your newish 2.0L EB is impressive Ray. The older Escapes even with the V6 did not have a lot of towing power. The chart below also shows the huge differences in performance even when vehicles are listed in the same tow rating groups.

Tom... you can see how well the older gas BMW X3 performs. Nice!!!

Transmission gearing comes into play on these figures. For example, the current 8-speed tranny in the Grand Cherokee and Durango have a substantially lower first gear than the old 5-speed, which raises RPM faster and thereby increases HP and torque sooner... resulting in faster times. (My guess is that the chart is a few years old, and the transmissions were the 5-speeds.)
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