Under floor insulation? - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 06-27-2012, 05:58 PM   #15
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When putting in new linoleum I used this cork underlay. It was $30 bucks and I used double sided floor tape to put it and the linoleum down. Just tested it in very damp and cold conditions and was very pleased with the effect on bare feet. Not cold at all. It does ad a very slight feel of softness/sponginess to the floor which I like but others may not. It was only 3mm thick and gives an insulating value of R3
Eco Cork Foam | Natural Choice Underlayment, for Laminate and Engineered Wood Floors | Home Depot Canada
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:32 AM   #16
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LiKe Wildbirder I suggest insulating on the top side, under the floor covering. This should be especially easy if you are to install Allure flooring. I used "buffalo board" under linoleum for our ice house. Works great.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:27 AM   #17
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I recently put a Pergo floor in my trailer. The Pergo thickness and foam backing probably add some insulating value. While mine was laid over the existing linoleum, you could probably lay a laminate floor directly over the carpet in your Scamp. That would retain any insulating value in the carpet.

My first FG trailer was a Scamp that I had while living in Alaska. Great trailer, but it was challenging in freezing winter. And that carpet soaked up a lot of dirt and dust, so I can't blame you for putting in hard surface flooring. But I would think it would be much easier to install and maintain insulators from the top down rather than trying to attach something under the trailer. Heat loss in a Scamp occurs right through the walls and single pane windows, no matter how you insulate the floor. They are just not designed for serious cold, since being light-weight is the prime design consideration. My current Bigfoot is so heavy, there are plenty of times I wish I still had the Scamp.

We use nice plush area rugs to walk on in cold weather. These can be taken out of the trailer for cleaning, as opposed to attached carpet.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:09 AM   #18
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[QUOTE=cpaharley2008;317903 Again, the floor is not the weak point in your Scamp, the windows and walls are.[/QUOTE]

Yup the windows are a weak point but not so sure about the walls.... it may not be the nicest thing to look at but the rat fur and foil on the walls work pretty darn well in cold weather..... or at least thats been my experience. The bathroom which is missing the rat fur & foil on most of the outside wall due to the shower is always much cooler than rest of the trailer even when their is no heat on in main part of the trailer.
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:05 PM   #19
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I'm really interested in people's experience with the Reflectix/fur combination.

When I look at the Scamp website they talk about having R15 superinsulation. When I look at the Reflectix website I see much lower claims and then only when used in specific ways. Most critical is that the reflective side must be immediately adjacent to an air gap for the material to function as a radiant barrier. As I understand it, on the Scamp one side is glued to the trailer wall (no air gap) and the other side has "Fur" glued to it (no air gap). Reflectix points out that even dust on the reflective surface impairs performance and in the Q&A section of their website says:


What if There is No Air Space Present on Either Side of the Product?
No Air Space = No Reflective Insulation Benefit
(An R-1.1 is provided from the product itself for the Reflective/Double Bubble material.)

So to my mind, the Reflectix is only providing R1.1 used in the way that it is. I can see much greater benefit if the Reflectix was left bare (as Reflectix suggests) - but then we would be looking at silver (aluminum) foil covered walls.

Escape has a similar issue with its double insulation option. From the photos on the Escape forum it seems that under cabinets, etc. they leave the Reflextix exposed and it presumably works properly as a radiant barrier. But elsewhere (all exposed walls, etc) it seems to be glued behind their regular foam insulation - so to my mind it cant work properly there either.

Please correct me if my understanding of the construction of these trailers is incorrect. Also, could people with experience with both the Reflectix/fur combination and other insulation types provide their comments comparing the Reflextix/fur to these other insulation types. I'm very interested in this.

Thanks!
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #20
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Reflectix

Lots of people have commented on the Reflectix insulation and their lousy website. The double sided reflectix is made with two layers of reflective material sandwiching a layer of bubbles. This internal air gap is what Scamp is relying on to provide the insulation.
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:48 PM   #21
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I do not think my 2001 has double layer reflectix. But I've only pulled back the rat fur in a few places to look behind it.

I've been very impressed with the way my Scamp has stayed cozy. I think it's very well insulated for the weight. With reflectix velcroed on the windows I can leave a heater on low and still keep comfortable temps in darn cold weather.

But even in a warm trailer, that floor is just uncozy when you step on it!

I'll consider the cork if it's only 3mm.
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanear View Post
I do not think my 2001 has double layer reflectix. But I've only pulled back the rat fur in a few places to look behind it..
I would be surprised if it didn't my 92 does.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:21 PM   #23
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Kevin:

I agree that the Reflectix website is a real pain to navigate. Some of their competitor's sites are even worse.

I understand that it is the internal air gap that is providing the insulation - but my issue is that Reflectix says that will provide only R1.1 per layer without that air gap on the external side. That doesn't seem like much insulation at all. To get R15 you would need to sandwich about 13 layers together. Yet many folks report good results. Does just R1.1 or so really satisfy them or is there something else in the construction process that I don't understand?

That's why I am so interested in hearing from people who have actual experience with Reflectix and another insulation type in these moulded fiberglass trailers.

Dylan:

I'm glad you are cozy in your Scamp, and I think that your making reflectix covers for the windows is exactly how Reflectix should be used. The reflective interior surface reflects heat back into the trailer rather than letting it out the windows.

I have a similar issue with the R-values quoted for the 3mm cork underlayment. Cork seems to have an R-value of 2-4 per inch (lots of variation due to veins, etc. running through it) depending on the source. I fail to understand how 3mm can provide R-3. I expect that the foam matrix used to bind the cork particles helps (but foam only goes up to about R-7 per inch) and the fact that it acts as a vapour barrier probably helps as well. In any event, while I have problems with the claimed R-value, I know from personal experience that a floor doesn't seem as cold when these products are used.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPJ View Post
Kevin:

Dylan:

I'm glad you are cozy in your Scamp, and I think that your making reflectix covers for the windows is exactly how Reflectix should be used. The reflective interior surface reflects heat back into the trailer rather than letting it out the windows.

I have a similar issue with the R-values quoted for the 3mm cork underlayment. Cork seems to have an R-value of 2-4 per inch (lots of variation due to veins, etc. running through it) depending on the source. I fail to understand how 3mm can provide R-3. I expect that the foam matrix used to bind the cork particles helps (but foam only goes up to about R-7 per inch) and the fact that it acts as a vapour barrier probably helps as well. In any event, while I have problems with the claimed R-value, I know from personal experience that a floor doesn't seem as cold when these products are used.
Yeah, I had given up on any under flooring (as opposed to under floor) insulation thinking than anything that would be thick enough and light enough to insulate would be too soft without some sort of support structure to be usable.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:35 PM   #25
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Fitted carpet on top of the Allure will probably be a good solution and it can still be removed easy for cleaning or if it ever gets damp (the main reasons I want the permanent carpet gone)
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:21 PM   #26
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I got a closed sell foam pad at Wall Mart in auto dept. 1piece will fit on the floor and cuts easy with sisiers. just put it under carpet works well.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:23 PM   #27
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Not all R-values are equal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

I too was pretty skeptical of the eco-cork having an R-value of R3. Skeptical but not concerned as the intent was to hide imperfections through thin linoleum. I am still pleasantly surprised by the extra warmth especially when I touched the uninsulated side to the dinette step and it was cold by comparison.

This discussion prompted me to reseach r-values and it turns out there is an international system and a US system. The US system being about 6 times higher! If the eco-cork was listed international its US value would be roughly R-0.5. About the same as cardboard according to the chart in the wikipedia article. Seems about right, cardboard's not a bad insulator.

Cheers,
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:54 PM   #28
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If I remember right the ability to heat & cool a space has an exponential relationship to its size... So a space half the size with the same R-value is vastly easier to keep warm. Also there are 3 types of heat energy, all effect a trailer in various amounts in changing conditions. A radiant barrier is very good at reflecting radiant heat, that is all it is good for. Air exchange and drafts are mostly a window and door issue. What is left is conduction, and there really is not much space in a trailer to do too much about it
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