Using Fastners instead of rivets - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-26-2019, 12:14 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Name: Echo
Trailer: SCAMP
Wisconsin
Posts: 18
Using Fastners instead of rivets

I have a 2005 13ft Scamp and I read awhile back that someone recommended using Stainless steel Fasteners because they last longer.
Can anyone steer me in the right direction?
Thanks
__________________

Echo 78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2019, 12:23 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,907
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo 78 View Post
I have a 2005 13ft Scamp and I read awhile back that someone recommended using Stainless steel Fasteners because they last longer.
Can anyone steer me in the right direction?
Thanks



There's been a lot of noise about using SS bolts and nuts vs Rivets. The factory used rivets and that's good enough for me. SS is generally not much stronger than aluminum rivets but a lot more expensive. I modified the propane tank hold down using SS bolts, why SS? Because with they get bent I can brake them off and replace.
__________________

__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2019, 04:19 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 1,598
I have never heard of anyone replacing a SS screw because it wallowed out it's mounting hole and was leaking.
I used all SS screws on my rebuild and have over 20,000 miles over the last three years and no leaks or loose screws.
redbarron55 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2019, 04:46 PM   #4
Member
 
Tom Haberski's Avatar
 
Name: habberdabber
Trailer: Casita
Wisconsin
Posts: 48
I've used Stainless steel and nylock nuts

Aluminum is not stronger in tension, compression or shear, all sizes being equal than S.S. The rivets are made of a pretty soft alloy....by design, so they can balloon out for fastening. This is an old topic, beaten to death on various fiberglass trailer forums and comes down to "use what you want".
Tom Haberski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2019, 12:56 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,907
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
I have never heard of anyone replacing a SS screw because it wallowed out it's mounting hole and was leaking.
I used all SS screws on my rebuild and have over 20,000 miles over the last three years and no leaks or loose screws.

I've got over 100,000 miles with factory aluminum rivets and no problems.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2019, 06:47 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 1,598
Enjoy!
redbarron55 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2019, 10:27 AM   #7
Member
 
Name: Alex
Trailer: Bigfoot
Washington
Posts: 30
Registry
When washing my Bigfoot for the first time I noticed the rivets for the front window cover were rusty. When it comes time to replace them I definitely won’t use a rivet with two different types of metal (ok, maybe stainless and aluminum would be a ok).
SnowballCamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2019, 12:25 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Name: Wayne & Barbara
Trailer: Parkliner
Iowa
Posts: 981
Fasteners vs Rivets?

Well, rivets ARE fasteners.
Mostly y'all are talking Pop Rivets, which allow you to install them without needing to get to the inside. They come in steel and aluminum.

Screws are best if you want to be able to remove or reuse them.
Our former Scamp Deluxe had the wood cabinetry inside so screws we're appropriate.
The plastic caps got old a brittle over time. I bought a complete set from Scamp, and replaced the washers and caps with a dab of silicone under each. Do one at a time, so nothing shifts inside.
Wayne Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 09:44 AM   #9
Member
 
Name: Alan
Trailer: 1983 Casita & 1972 home-built
Oregon
Posts: 38
Dissimilar Metals Corrosion charts

This great paper on dissimilar metal corrosion has tables showing which fasteners are OK with which metal parts.



https://www.pdhonline.com/courses/s118/s118content.pdf


You can get stainless steel rivets, but have to be careful what other metals you use them with.


Stainless Steel Grades: This page has a great downloadable chart on the commonly used stainless steel grades and their uses. Note that not all stainless steel is suitable for marine use- if we camp or boat near the ocean much we need to pay attention to these details. The 316 series is best for marine uses, but most commonly available stainless steel hardware is not marine grade.

https://blog.mchoneind.com/blog/stai...l-grades-chart



Pressure Treated Wood: Another important aspect of dissimilar metal corrosion is that the most common pressure-treated wood chemicals are called Copper Quat (ACQ) and Copper Azole (CA) and they are extremely corrosive to galvanized steel hangers and fasteners. This is why we started seeing stainless steel joist hangers in the stores a few years back. The corrosion potential is so bad if you build a deck with ACQ pressure treated wood, you really should use marine grade stainless fasteners and design the deck structure so it does not depend on the continued existence of the joist hangers, nails, bolts, and other galvanized steel parts for structural integrity. Leaning against a railing nailed to a rim joist with galvanized steel fasteners is a dangerous act.


https://www.popularmechanics.com/hom...mber-15655848/


I started pulling coated decking screws out of my friend's 5 year-old pressure-treated wood deck with cedar deck boards and found they were already eaten half-through. This house is 10 miles from the Pacific coast. We bought marine stainless replacements and replaced every screw in the deck. It is expensive, but we can probably pull these screws and re-use them when the decking boards need to be replaced in a few years.
ARVZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 10:00 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Name: Darral
Trailer: Scamp Standard 13' 2010
Tennessee
Posts: 1,636
Rivets are fine until they get loose. There's no "tightening" them. I had mine loosen AND leak on my closet. They wallowed out, the rivets BENT... I replaced them with #10 SS screw/washer/nut. 3-4 yrs...no more problem. Obviously, this was in a stressful area on the body and that's why I replaced the alum. rivets. (2).
Darral T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 06:20 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Steve Hammel's Avatar
 
Name: Steve
Trailer: Hymer Touring GT
Loon Lake Wa. and Boulder City, Nv.
Posts: 1,816
Registry
I actually used both. I needed to replace some rivets and didn't have a rivet gun or rivets. I did have several packs of stainless nuts and bolts as well as several plastic rivet covers. It worked excellent and never had a problem. I do like to lock the threads with something like locktite.
Steve Hammel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019, 11:28 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Name: Stephen
Trailer: Casita
Tennessee
Posts: 131
Question Why?

If a rivet needs replacing it is because it is being over stressed. Rivets should merely hold parts together not have to withstand stress. Airplane wing rivets never need replacing from stress. The permanent solution is to eliminate the stress.
Stephen_Albers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019, 11:51 AM   #13
Junior Member
 
Name: Greg
Trailer: Bigfoot
British Columbia
Posts: 2
Another option nutzerts

Another option is to use nutzerts which are also called rivet nuts or anchor rivets. I have used them to replace screws that had loosened on a 1984 Bigfoot to hold the front canopy brackets in place. They come in aluminum or steel and are available at Princess Auto in Canada. This gives you a way of installing a nut on the inside of the fiberglass shell wall (from the outside) that is held in place, and then you can bolt through from the outside.
Greg in BC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019, 12:41 PM   #14
Member
 
Name: T
Trailer: Designing and building
Florida
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo 78 View Post
Can anyone steer me in the right direction?
Thanks
I'll try.

First, for stainless fasteners, call Parker Merrick in Florida at 800-432-3700 or 954-761-1677. Tell them that Whitney referred you, might get preferential pricing. Expect to buy boxes of 25-100 pcs.

Now for the complicated part.

Riveted and bolted (screwed) joints are intended to perform in exactly the same manner; the fastener pulls the joined parts together with enough tension that the joined parts cannot move, and sprung tension in the fastener keeps the joint from developing play and wearing loose.

Blind/POP rivets* typically use compression in the joined materials to provide this tension. In soft materials, if the area under the head or under the bulbed shaft is too small this tension won't last long, and loosening and leaks will follow. They are an ideal fastener for initial assembly, but don't have an infinite lifespan.

Bolted joints typically use the fastener as a sprung element, but that isn't practical in the case of thin fiberglass/wood structures, so the bolted assembly is once again the spring. When I through-bolt as we're discussing, I will typically use neoprene-bonded sealing washers on the outside, with either truss head or countersunk oval head** screws, metric fender washers to fit, and nylon-insert lock nuts. The neo-bonded washers are slightly conical, and between that and the rubber layer there's a pretty strong spring force. The metric fender washers are thicker than US standard, and don't sink into fiberglass or wood easily.

Bolted joints tend to hold up longer, seal better, can be retightened, and can be maintained. Riveted joints are quicker and a little less expensive, but don't last as long.

Complicated enough? :-)

*If you're going to use blind rivets, seek out "closed-end", which won't need to have the mandrel hole sealed to avoid leakage.

**Neo-bonded washers are a metal roofing or metal building fastener, if your local supplier has no idea what they are. If you want a larger washer and a very clean look, use oval head screws with a neo-bonded washer that the screw head sits down into. This won't be the "correct" size, but between head fill and gasket compression it works very well.

Next we can do bonded joints!!
__________________

Thomcat316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using a MobiCool instead of the fridge. drdog Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 0 07-06-2015 01:39 AM
Nuts n' bolts instead of rivets? dylanear Modifications, Alterations and Updates 20 05-31-2012 01:57 PM
Need a tool for mid 70's window fastners Peter_Crowl Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 6 01-03-2011 09:04 AM
ss fastners Jason Goward Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 2 08-22-2007 03:09 PM
Scamp Mattress Instead of Cushions Kimberly Geddes Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 6 06-14-2006 09:08 AM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.