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03-17-2013, 10:16 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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Wasp/hornet spray for self defense
While skimming thru a recently revived thread, I noticed several posters suggest the use of insecticide sprays in lieu of pepper spray for self defense against human attackers. Advocates based their preference on the alleged greater range and effectiveness of these sprays as compared to pepper spray.
I had never heard of this practice and did an Internet search for information corroborating these arguments. I found absolutely no expert testimony that confirmed superior effectiveness over pepper spray in stopping an attacker. I also found an avalanche of warnings about the illegality of the use of poisons in self defense and of the possible consequences of criminal prosecution which might be incurred by their use.
All of us traveling alone or in company who contemplate carrying an insecticide bomb as a self defense strategem should perform due diligence in thoroughly investigating these issues. PLEASE do not take this as an occasion to either advocate or discuss other common self defense strategies. I make the above statements only to encourage us all to be fully informed before we place our confidence in at hand expedients for personal defense in case of attack.
jack
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03-17-2013, 10:44 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 5,112
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Is the active ingredient in wasp spray more poisonous than lead?
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03-17-2013, 10:55 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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The toxicity of lead oxides is well-documented.
jack
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03-17-2013, 11:30 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Name: Carl
Trailer: 2013 Lil Snoozy #161 (SOLD)/2010 Tacoma
NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,358
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One of the plus factors in wasp spray in articles I've read is the "surprise" factor.
Ladies working at a desk can surprise an assailant with wasp spray on her desk but if pepper spray were setting there, one would recognize it.
You bring up an interesting point. Will do some verifying research.
McGyver would find himself in deep deep doo doo with the political correct police.
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03-17-2013, 11:32 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Name: Carl
Trailer: 2013 Lil Snoozy #161 (SOLD)/2010 Tacoma
NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,358
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WELL! Boom.......right off found this from Oklahoma police.
Oklahoma Personal Defense - Myth of Wasp Spray
"Let me put it this way – you've no doubt seen police officers on the news spraying rioters with pepper spray. How many of you have seen them spraying rioters with cans of wasp spray?"
§21651. Poison, attempt to kill by administering.
Any person who, with intent to kill, administers or causes or procures to be administered to another any poison which is actually taken by such other person but by which death is not caused shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary not less than ten (10) years.
"But worse yet, what really makes me angry, is that some day a woman is going to be attacked and she's going to spray wasp spray on her attacker (because that's what she's believed will work) and it's going to have absolutely no effect. So you see, she probably won't even have the chance to go to federal prison because her attacker will probably kill her...after he rapes and tortures her."
http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp
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03-17-2013, 11:45 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Trailer: Trillium 4500
Posts: 2,050
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" with intent to kill,"
Key phrase is intent. It is doubtful that someone being attacked would spray someone with pepper spray or wasp spray intending to kill the attacker. That being the case they couldn't be charged with intentionally trying to "poison" someone.
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03-17-2013, 11:50 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: jen
Trailer: 1980 13 ft. burro
Pennsylvania
Posts: 852
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Nice investigative work, people!
I wasn't planning to stock up on wasp spray for my solo travels, but it also hadn't occurred to me that it might be another reason not to believe everything I read on the internets (shocking!).
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03-17-2013, 11:53 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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An attempt to stop or interrupt the progress of an assault is not necessarily tantamount to an attempt to kill the assailant, but employing a potentially lethal toxin provides additional probability of successful prosecution in criminal proceedings and judgment for compensation to the assailant in civil suits for damages.
jack
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03-17-2013, 11:54 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Name: Carl
Trailer: 2013 Lil Snoozy #161 (SOLD)/2010 Tacoma
NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,358
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I will be taking wasp spray for, well, wasps.........
But if someone comes at me and it's handy, I will use it. haha
I do carry pepper spray on my belt.
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03-17-2013, 11:55 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Name: Carl
Trailer: 2013 Lil Snoozy #161 (SOLD)/2010 Tacoma
NE Oklahoma
Posts: 2,358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit
An attempt to stop or interrupt the progress of an assault is not necessarily tantamount to an attempt to kill the assailant, but employing a potentially lethal toxin provides additional probability of successful prosecution in criminal proceedings and compensation in civil suits for damages.
jack
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We'll just have to bury them in our basements.
All campers have a basement? Right?
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03-17-2013, 11:57 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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Why not use Coca Cola? Seems to work for everything else.
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03-17-2013, 11:58 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Trailer: Trillium 4500
Posts: 2,050
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That's strange. The Oklahoma article states that Snopes says it is ineffective however that is not the case when you read the Snopes article. In fact Snopes says that it is effective. Hmmmmmmmm!
Now given a choice of pepper spray or bug spray I would much prefer the pepper spray but if I was being attacked and bug spray, hair spray, paint, whatever was at hand I would use it to protect myself. That said I don't think I would keep bug spray around solely for that purpose.
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03-17-2013, 12:23 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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Well-stated Steve. There a lot of considerations. The first is how to avoid or escape attack. The second how to stop an attacker. The third how to increase the odds of being able to justify one's response afterwards.
jack
PS: My wife, who has not always been successful in pointing things down range, says that another consideration is making sure you don't blind or poison yourself.
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03-17-2013, 12:28 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Name: Dennis
Trailer: Scamp 16'
Utah
Posts: 258
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If attacked, I would use anything at my disposal!!! I had a police officer recommend wasp spray as it sprays further than pepper spray. Police officer also recommended, if you keep a bat in your car for protection, keep a mitt and a ball too-otherwise the bat is a 'planned weapon'. You do what you gotta do for protection.
__________________
Dennis
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03-17-2013, 12:36 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit
An attempt to stop or interrupt the progress of an assault is not necessarily tantamount to an attempt to kill the assailant, but employing a potentially lethal toxin provides additional probability of successful prosecution in criminal proceedings and judgment for compensation to the assailant in civil suits for damages.
jack
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Say what????
Suggestion: Substitute the word "gun" for "potentially lethal toxin". Does the assertion still stand?
Francesca
__________________
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Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
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03-17-2013, 01:01 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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The possession and use of deadly force is a PITA if it can be determined that the nominal victim is actually the aggressor and that other remedies were not exhausted prior to its use. Your choice to get a CC permit and stick a pink LadySmith n your purse. The same caveats apply. Let's make an honest effort to stick to the subject and concerns of the OP, who happens be me. Thanks.
jack
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03-17-2013, 01:21 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 905
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Wouldn't like 99.9% of the people not stop to think about what might happen to them if they are trying to stop someone from criminally attacking them? You know, this is another thing that I am just not going to worry about but the criminals would like it if you are just too afraid to defend yourself because they are counting on that. I could worry about my dogs biting someone and the liability insurance not covering what I would be sued for. I could worry that I might bump into someone on the street and injure them so I could just sit in the house and make that my prison or sit at home quietly alone hoping that death comes quickly. Gotta' live!
It is good that the OP has brought this to everyone's attention but in the end, we all have to make our own choices.
Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp
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03-17-2013, 01:26 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit
The possession and use of deadly force is a PITA if it can be determined that the nominal victim is actually the aggressor and that other remedies were not exhausted prior to its use. Your choice to get a CC permit and stick a pink LadySmith n your purse. The same caveats apply. Let's make an honest effort to stick to the subject and concerns of the OP, who happens be me. Thanks.
jack
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I'm trying!
Did I get the message wrong in the post I quoted? It seems to warn against the use of wasp spray since it could be considered to be "deadly"...I just don't see why its use for self defense should be discouraged for that reason.
Certainly it's less "deadly" than a gun (which I don't carry)- or my sheath knife, for that matter.
Francesca
__________________
............... ..................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
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03-17-2013, 01:35 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Jack thanks for the heads up re the bug spray. Would hate to see the back window of my trailer were the little stick men of my confirmed kills are get to cluttered up with unintentional kills. best to stick to the pepper spray.
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03-17-2013, 03:03 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 5,112
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When I was traveling around the country in my van I kept a can of oven cleaner spray handy. If you read the label warnings, you know why.
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