Wave 3 Heater Installation - Fiberglass RV
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Old 12-13-2008, 08:22 PM   #1
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Name: Parker
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I just completed installation of a Wave 3 heater in our 13' Scamp. I mounted it below the closet door, and plumbed it in using 3/8" copper tubing. After reading about some other installations, I decided to tee into the bulkhead fitting outside the body of the trailer and take a direct route across the outside front of the body (behind the battery box) and then tuck under the floor on the curbside of the frame. From there, it was a simple matter to run along the frame rail, then up into the bottom of the closet on the front side of the wheel well, and then penetrate the closet wall to connect to the heater. I intalled a shutoff cock just inboard of the curbside frame rail in the horizontal run behind the battery box. All finished, no leaks after a little extra wrenching in a couple of places, everything tied down and the heater works great. Now, after all this, I'm wondering if I should have left some expansion bends in the tubing. There is not much give in the run of copper. I looked at the difference in thermal expansion coefficients between copper and the steel frame, and for the short distance involved, there is only .012" of difference between the two for a span of 100 F. So thermal expansion shouldn't be an issue, but what about vibration? No motors involved, so I don't envision much trouble there either. Any reason to be concerned? I'm starting to see the merits of hose, but the copper seemed like a good way to go for a permanent installation with a minimum of fittings.

Parker
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Old 12-14-2008, 03:02 PM   #2
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Any reason to be concerned? I'm starting to see the merits of hose, but the copper seemed like a good way to go for a permanent installation with a minimum of fittings.

Parker
An Inexpesive LP tester down at the floor will give you early warning of any leaks and also put your mind at ease......... sounds like you did a first class job which i also want to do with my wave 3 sooner or later.
Joe

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Old 12-14-2008, 03:59 PM   #3
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. . . So thermal expansion shouldn't be an issue, but what about vibration? . . .
Most trailer's gas systems are plumbed with copper, which is very malleable and doesn't tend to develop metal fatigue fractures like harder metals do. You can get copper to fatigue, but you have to do a lot of flexing and bending to make it happen. So as long as your copper tube is supported and strapped down snugly to prevent it from moving around as the trailer bumps its way down the highway vibration and metal fatigue should not be a concern.

--Peter
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Old 12-14-2008, 06:52 PM   #4
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Guys,

Thanks for your comments. Guess I'll install the appropriate gas detectors and get on with it!

Parker

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Old 12-14-2008, 07:34 PM   #5
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Guys,

Thanks for your comments. Guess I'll install the appropriate gas detectors and get on with it!

Parker
What did you do with the space where the old Suburban heater was?
I glassed mine over but am not sure what I'll do for heat. The Wave 3 is really nice but big $.
At least the gas pipe is there and waiting.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:28 PM   #6
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What did you do with the space where the old Suburban heater was?
Jim,

Our Scamp did not come with a heater, so this was a fresh install for me.

Parker


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Old 01-11-2014, 07:56 PM   #7
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Wave 3 install 13 scamp

Parker, How did you get the copper from the hole by the wheel well to the hole in the front of the closet. I been pulling my hair out and wasting copper all day. A picture would be worth a thousand words..... Thanks Gary
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:53 PM   #8
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Hey Parker, have you tried camping at night with your Wave 3 yet? We bought a Wave 6 (just incase!) for our Burro 13' and was wondering how effective it will be in keeping us warm when we go ski-RVing (expecting sub-freezing nights). Any advice about placement?
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:21 PM   #9
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The original post was in 2008...
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:26 PM   #10
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Ming, we have a Wave 3 in our Scamp 5th wheel. It keeps our trailer in the 65-70 range on freezing nights, and that's a *much* bigger trailer. I'd be concerned that a Wave 6 might make a little 13' too warm, even on its low setting.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:57 AM   #11
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Wave heaters

Be cautious on placement/mounting
Clearance specifications for my Wave 3 were
Sides 4"
Bottom 4"
Above 16"
Front 30"
Rear 0"
I only found one spot in a 17SD that met the specs for permanent mounting. Portable mounting feet is another option.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:08 PM   #12
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I know this is an old thread but thought I would point out that only flare fittings are approved and safe for copper LPG piping. No compression fittings allowed.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:19 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by beemerphile1 View Post
I know this is an old thread but thought I would point out that only flare fittings are approved and safe for copper LPG piping. No compression fittings allowed.

Ya lost me there...a flare fitting is a type of compression fitting.

If you're saying that it's the only kind allowed for use in propane and/or RV applications, I'd be most grateful for a linked reference to the applicable rules...
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:12 PM   #14
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Good thing I only work in 316ss and Swagelok compression fittings. Do you think a 6,000psi rating will be enough?
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Old 01-31-2014, 05:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post

Ya lost me there...a flare fitting is a type of compression fitting.

If you're saying that it's the only kind allowed for use in propane and/or RV applications, I'd be most grateful for a linked reference to the applicable rules...
Francesca,
You are correct, but they work a little differently.
The typical compression fitting has a double beveled collar that slips over the tube which gets compressed when the two halves of the fittings come together. The collar is usually made of soft brass which constricts to the tube. The tube yields in diameter a little which adds a variable to the success of achieving a seal. Trades people develop a feel for the job with experience.
The flare fittings work by the flared lip of the tube getting squeezed by the mating surfaces of the fittings. These provide more feed back when tightening and make very reliable connections, thus the approval by the powers that be.
Russ
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ruscal View Post
The flare fittings work by the flared lip of the tube getting squeezed by the mating surfaces of the fittings. These provide more feed back when tightening and make very reliable connections, thus the approval by the powers that be.
Russ
Brings us back to my original question:
WHICH "powers that be" have decreed that only flare fittings are approved for propane gasline use?
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:36 AM   #17
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Francesca,
I have no clue who oversees RV construction. I found one industry group that looked to have some basic codes, but they were very limited. Even national plumbing codes may be modified by local agencies to fit local codes. I found several references by respected sources that mention flare fittings as a proper method to connect fuel gas tube connections. I also read a plumbing code section on line that lumped compression along with other sorts of proprietary fittings that could be used if certain other things were done to insure the fitting wouldn't be pulled apart, were properly supported, and the fittings were designed for that specific purpose, and the local authority approved it. Kind of vague. Usually you see some stamps or approval tags on gas accessories like flex hoses etc. Some compression fittings may not be listed.
On race cars we use 37 degree flare AN fittings on fuel lines. We use stainless steel tube with those systems. They withstand vibration well and never leak if tightened properly. Methanol eats at the aluminum fittings, so periodic inspection is required. AN type and standard 45 degree fittings are not compatible, so can't be inter-connected.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:35 AM   #18
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Francesca, standards regulations or rules aside, standard plumbing compression fittings are not suitable for copper RV gas lines. Here's why:

Standard compression fittings depend on the pipe not deforming past a certain point in order to maintain a leak-proof seal. Copper tubing's advantage for RV users is that it is malleable -- you can easily bend it by hand -- so, even if you insert a sleeve inside the tube to support it, the vibration created by towing the trailer will eventually deform the copper in the union. Then the fitting will fail and propane gas will leak into your trailer.

Not a good idea.

Flare fittings, on the other hand, work with the malleability of the copper to create a wide, funnel-shaped "flare" that can be smashed between specialized, cone-shaped threaded nut and fittings that further deform and flatten the copper inside a defined space. As the fitting is tightened, the volume of that space decreases and the malleable copper has no choice but to deform, flow into, and fill that space, creating a durable, air-tight seal.

In flare fittings the malleable nature of copper isn't a liability because, even if the trailer flexes and vibrates the fitting, the copper can't deform and create an opening because it has no where to flow/deform to inside the enclosed and confined space of the flare fitting.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:22 PM   #19
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Peter, thank you for putting rational ideas behind the advise to not use compression fittings. I now get the reason for flare fittings. Makes sense.

I will probably still use 316, since it is what I am familiar with.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:27 PM   #20
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Black pipe and stainless fittings will certainly work, just don't use flexible pipe for the last few feet as you might in your home. The vibration of towing will fatigue the thin-wall flexible pipe, and it'll leak. Either hard-plumb the whole distance or use copper tubing with flares for the final connection; RV gas appliances all come with fittings for flared copper.

I kind of like the idea of installing hard pipe outside the trailer, then using flexible copper with flares to connect the hard line to the appliances. That said, that's not what I plan to do.

We'll be installing all our gas-piping (and plumbing and electric and so on) from scratch in our Surfside project trailer. I'll use copper pipe with flares, but plan on placing as much of the pipe and fittings on the underside of the trailer as I can. Our main line will snake back from the propane tank to the curb side where it will "T" off to the refrigerator, then snake across to the street side where it will "T" again for the furnace, water heater, and (last of all) head up to the cook top. That'll keep all but the actual connections to each appliance outside the trailer, making for fewer unions that could potentially leak into the actual enclosed living space. It'll also make flushing and charging the line during setup a lot easier.
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