Window Leak - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 06-05-2010, 12:07 PM   #15
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I hear you Donna , and good point. Duct tape and Vise grips can do amazing things. And they never rush you or complain

Another thought is that, with Jalousies, you could perhaps use clamps if you removed the screen. Or perhaps something like a 1 x 3 spanning the opening on the inside and with fasteners going through them and a couple of the holes (then do the rest; then come back to those and do them the standard way).

Or, since I have not done mine yet, it may be just as simple to line things up, put in a few strategic fasteners, and then go back and do the rest.

Raya

PS: Donna, did you notice I used the ol' eyeball? I could just "see" you putting it in one of your posts
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:11 PM   #16
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Hi cyndi,

The putty sounds like it may be non-butyl putty. Butyl will stretch quite a bit without wanting to break apart (like really elastic taffy or melted cheese), and I don't think putty will do that, so you may be able to test it. Also, I think any product containing butyl would brag about it on the packaging. Personally, I would resist the urge to go ahead with the job unless I were sure I had the right stuff, because the work is the main thing and takes just as long with either product - but IMO butyl will do a better job and last longer than "plain" putty.

As far as the holes extending into the opening, well it would have been nice if our campers had been a tiny bit more "crafted," but they are what they are.

If it were me, I would build up new fiberglass where it should have been in the first place, and then drill nice, tidy fully enclosed holes. It's not that hard a job; just think "papier mache with chemicals" It would give the sealant a better chance of working (proper flat bedding surface) and would make the installation more secure (not that the window is going to fly out this way, but the less movement and the more bedding surface the fewer leaks). OTOH, as you say, it has lasted this long, so you could probably get away with just putting it back as-is. I don't think I would drill new holes in the window; I can't see your window, but aluminum is not terribly strong, and that would probably put the holes very close to the edge of the window (unless I'm missing something in the description).

I think it's one of those jobs that, while it would certainly be easy with two people, one person could do it with a bit of a plan.

On the small window, I think you do need the backframe gasket, and I don't think butyl would work. That's because the gasket wraps around into the exposed area and is what seals the bottom and sides of the window when you open and close it (presuming you have this style of Hehr jalousie). It's the black rubber gasket you can see in the second photo.


Attachment 28512



Attachment 28513


Now if only we could see what you are doing
Thanks. i will bring the putty tape i have by a window place to see if they have any and/or if mine is the correct kind. i'm 90% sure it is b/c of it's location/purpose in the store but i will do the stretch test to see. i dont hve the energy to do this, especially looking everywhere. (especially tiring is explaining what i want and that NO, it would not be in the tape aisle with all the other tape) So, definately no energy for fiberglassing. It's held for 30 years, it will hold for another. I'd post a pic but it sounds like you know what i mean. the goal is to finish today. I will trust donna's duct tape solution. I've done a lot with a stack of phone books filling in as a person. Duct tape and phone books are always available when you need them! I'm not doing the side window now, but i'll check the gasket. (no energy and it's so small that i can just tape a bag over it if it's raining) It had old silicone caulking on it from a PO that i removed. i'm going to peel off a rope of that mysterious, possibly butyl tape and wedge it around the outside edge where the silicone was b/c there is a gap there. a quick fix that could work. if not no big deal b/c i'm not dealing with that window until fall anyway. i did notice that the grey trim around the actual glass seems to have shrunk, doesnt fill in the corners and has a 1 inch gap at the top. first things first though..........
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Old 06-05-2010, 04:44 PM   #17
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cyndi,

It sounds like what you have is more like what we used to know as "Mortite," that you can use to fill drafty gaps around windows in old houses. If so, it will "tear" as you stretch it and not stretch out long and elasticy, like butyl does.

I have not found any local places that have butyl tape, as it is becoming a bit old fashioned (tried RV places, glass places, "good" hardware store, and Home Depot type place). Your area may be different. But, if not, Vintage Trailer Supply, and many other online RV places have the Butyl tape. It may be called "Tremco" tape, or "Tacky" tape, or "Parr" tape. But it will say that it is butyl tape.

On that small Hehr - the grey small trim outlining the rounded part of the window is important, but it's not like the main sealing gasket. It's also very available and easy to replace. It's called "Hehr Standard Glass seal" and you can find it on this page:

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/...asket_s/26.htm

This is what it looks like old:


Click image for larger version

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The bead itself:



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And new (in a larger window but same style):


Click image for larger version

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ID:	28530


If you are not in an energetic, "do it right" mood, I might suggest using 3M's 225 Weather Resistant Masking Tape. It looks a bit like duct tape but is different. You can make a small "hood/shingle" over the top or sides of the window (or a leaky rivet or etc.) with one strip of tape, and it will stay on but not "weld" on for some time outside (unlike duct or blue tape that *do* weld on). I find it to be a good temporary fix that is not so hard to undo that the job never gets done right. I do understand your mood though; sometimes it all just seems like too much bother. I try not to do big projects when I'm in that mood, and instead break out the 225 until I have the time/weather/mood

Here is a photo of the 3M 225 (I use the wider, 2" though):



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Old 06-05-2010, 05:09 PM   #18
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[quote]cyndi,

It sounds like what you have is more like what we used to know as "Mortite," that you can use to fill drafty gaps around windows in old houses. If so, it will "tear" as you stretch it and not stretch out long and elasticy, like butyl does.

I have not found any local places that have butyl tape, as it is becoming a bit old fashioned (tried RV places, glass places, "good" hardware store, and Home Depot type place). Your area may be different. But, if not, Vintage Trailer Supply, and many other online RV places have the Butyl tape. It may be called "Tremco" tape, or "Tacky" tape, or "Parr" tape. But it will say that it is butyl tape.

On that small Hehr - the grey small trim outlining the rounded part of the window is important, but it's not like the main sealing gasket. It's also very available and easy to replace. It's called "Hehr Standard Glass seal" and you can find it on this page:

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/...asket_s/26.htm

This is what it looks like old:


Attachment 28528


The bead itself:


Attachment 28529


And new (in a larger window but same style):


Attachment 28530


If you are not in an energetic, "do it right" mood, I might suggest using 3M's 225 Weather Resistant Masking Tape. It looks a bit like duct tape but is different. You can make a small "hood/shingle" over the top or sides of the window (or a leaky rivet or etc.) with one strip of tape, and it will stay on but not "weld" on for some time outside (unlike duct or blue tape that *do* weld on). I find it to be a good temporary fix that is not so hard to undo that the job never gets done right. I do understand your mood though; sometimes it all just seems like too much bother. I try not to do big projects when I'm in that mood, and instead break out the 225 until I have the time/weather/mood

Here is a photo of the 3M 225 (I use the wider, 2" though):


Attachment 28527

Awesome!!!!!! Thanks. it is most likely that i will drive out to the rv place tomorrow. today is a dead day so i'll force myself to clean it up and get it ready at least.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:01 AM   #19
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Awesome!!!!!! Thanks. it is most likely that i will drive out to the rv place tomorrow. today is a dead day so i'll force myself to clean it up and get it ready at least.
so its all cleaned off now, and will hopefully be put on today when i get the new wood. i saw the gasket you mentioned and want to order it but i dont see the rubber gasket that you said is the most important. am i blind? the grey weather seal on my jalousie windows is also pretty old so i may as well replace it. do you reccomend any of the ones on the page? what about the fuzzy weather stripping for the sides? Overkill? (we do have cold winters though) I cant get a good profile of the gasket on mine w/o taking it right out which im not ready to do yet. i tried yesterday but it just broke in 1/2. I want to just put in one order. Fyi- you were right, that was the wrong putty and i ended up getting a big roll at the rv store. thanks a bunch
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:16 PM   #20
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Hi cyndi,

Well, you sound refreshed today. Here is a photo and link to the backframe gasket that goes around the sides and bottom of the small Hehr jalousies - between the main frame and the outside shell of the camper.

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Hehr_S..._p/vts-199x.htm



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The one drawback is that you have to buy a lot, and it is not cheap. On the other hand, I'm sure you could sell the extra. I've just been on the verge of ordering it, along with some of the other seals, and I was figuring I would put my extras here in the classifieds.

As far as any of the other seals (besides the backframe and the glass seal), I am not sure about which ones fit which windows. I'm also not as sure they are all the same. If I were you I would check the web sites of the following, and perhaps give them a call/send a photo/dimensions, etc. I agree that it can be hard to discern the profile of some of the smaller seals without removing them, but then you are hoping you find them...

www.vintagetrailersupply.com
www.interstatemetals.com
www.pellandent.com

Also, if you are working on the small Hehrs, note that VTS has the small plastic glider for the tip of the operator arm (and, indeed, the whole arm, if I'm not mistaken). They also have operators for the dinette window (I'm not sure they will fit all Bolers, but they say they have fit Boler windows).

Good on you for finding the butyl tape It's good stuff.

Raya
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Old 06-06-2010, 03:18 PM   #21
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Hi cyndi,

Well, you sound refreshed today. Here is a photo and link to the backframe gasket that goes around the sides and bottom of the small Hehr jalousies - between the main frame and the outside shell of the camper.

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Hehr_S..._p/vts-199x.htm


Attachment 28541


The one drawback is that you have to buy a lot, and it is not cheap. On the other hand, I'm sure you could sell the extra. I've just been on the verge of ordering it, along with some of the other seals, and I was figuring I would put my extras here in the classifieds.

As far as any of the other seals (besides the backframe and the glass seal), I am not sure about which ones fit which windows. I'm also not as sure they are all the same. If I were you I would check the web sites of the following, and perhaps give them a call/send a photo/dimensions, etc. I agree that it can be hard to discern the profile of some of the smaller seals without removing them, but then you are hoping you find them...

www.vintagetrailersupply.com
www.interstatemetals.com
www.pellandent.com

Also, if you are working on the small Hehrs, note that VTS has the small plastic glider for the tip of the operator arm (and, indeed, the whole arm, if I'm not mistaken). They also have operators for the dinette window (I'm not sure they will fit all Bolers, but they say they have fit Boler windows).

Good on you for finding the butyl tape It's good stuff.

Raya
Cleaning those frames was grunt work that i wasnt up to but it seemed to recharge me. i'm glad its over. i used the opportunity to polish all the aluminum, which didnt shine up inside but oh well at least its clean. bonus that i learned that the screen frames come out, i never knew that. So i'm not 100% sure on the gasket. when you said more important was the one between the frame and window i thought you meant the black. mine is old and has lost its softness but i cant see it on the page. Are we both talking about this stuff? (see pic) I want to replace the black for sure, but my profile looks different than on VTS. the small grey trim that surrounds the oval has also stiffened up but seems fine. my only concern was it had a 1/2" gap at the top and didnt reach all the corners. i thought if i pushed it in the corners all the way, then i'd end up with an even larger gap. Maybe that gap is meant to be there, like a weeping hole? Or could it have shrunk up over the years? If it's meant to have a gap i may just keep it b/c it is ok, just stiff. the black i'd like to replace as well as the weather stripping on the larger windows. When it comes time to do the smaller ones i'll redo the butyl as well.
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Old 06-06-2010, 03:23 PM   #22
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Cleaning those frames was grunt work that i wasnt up to but it seemed to recharge me. i'm glad its over. i used the opportunity to polish all the aluminum, which didnt shine up inside but oh well at least its clean. bonus that i learned that the screen frames come out, i never knew that. So i'm not 100% sure on the gasket. when you said more important was the one between the frame and window i thought you meant the black. mine is old and has lost its softness but i cant see it on the page. Are we both talking about this stuff? (see pic) I want to replace the black for sure, but my profile looks different than on VTS. the small grey trim that surrounds the oval has also stiffened up but seems fine. my only concern was it had a 1/2" gap at the top and didnt reach all the corners. i thought if i pushed it in the corners all the way, then i'd end up with an even larger gap. Maybe that gap is meant to be there, like a weeping hole? Or could it have shrunk up over the years? If it's meant to have a gap i may just keep it b/c it is ok, just stiff. the black i'd like to replace as well as the weather stripping on the larger windows. When it comes time to do the smaller ones i'll redo the butyl as well.
Duhhh. i looked at 'more photos' and it answered my ? I was just thrown off b/c it doesnt look like mine. It looks grey and a different profile than my black. So, now just to figure out the entire order.

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Old 06-06-2010, 03:59 PM   #23
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cyndi,

Cleaning up your windows and figuring out how they work - sweet

Just to clarify, the black gasket that you show in your photos is the "backframe gasket." That is key for sealing the window to the camper, and can only be replaced when the window is out. It comes in black from VTS.

The "glass seal" is the smaller strip that runs around the oval shaped section on the outside of the window. It should not have a gap - that is caused by the old material shrinking. There is no need or desire for any drainage gap in that.

I maybe shouldn't have implied that the "glass seal" was unimportant, but I would say it is less crucial than the backframe gasket. Also, it can be replaced any time; the window does not have to be out of the camper. This seal comes in grey or black, but all the ones I've seen on Bolers have been grey, if that matters to you.

Raya
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