Yamaha EF2400iS Generator - Page 4 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-16-2008, 05:02 PM   #43
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Several Things:
Last year I found that a critter had built a mud nest in the exhaust pipe and it limited the RPM of the generator. Take a screwdriver and run it around inside the exhaust to make sure that has not happened.
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McCullouch Stuff:
I started the McCullouch and used one of those little plug in devices that lights up and it showed an open ground.
McCullough also states that you will lose 3.5% for each 1,000 Ft increase in altitude.

On the McCullough, there is a ground lug and they state:
" Be sure to ground the generator when the connected equipment is grounded." "To prevent electrical shock from faulty appliances, the generator should be grounded. Connect a length of heavy wire between the generator's ground terminal and an external ground source.

Scamp Thing:
On our Scamp, Both the AC and DC have the return side of the wiring to the frame.
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Old 09-16-2008, 05:56 PM   #44
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Thanks Darwin.

I’ll double check my situation.
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Old 09-16-2008, 06:08 PM   #45
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HELP. So I hope someone here can answer this question.

When I had my Honda EU2000i in my Casita, my Kipor 3500 on my houseboat and this Yamaha EF2400iS, ALL inverter type generators; they all show an Open Ground ERROR when you check the circuitry. With an Open Ground ERROR, it is my understanding that GFI plugs won’t work. My friends Surge Protector would not work with the Open Ground ERROR.

How do you correct the problem of an Open Ground ERROR on one of these Inverter Generators?

These generators are on rubber feet. The trailer is on rubber tires. The trailer uses the frame for the 12 volt ground.

Is there a solution for these Open Ground ERRORS with an Inverter Generator?
Mike

The reason you see an open ground error is that the safety ground (green wire) and neutral (white wire) are not connected in the generator. The safety ground is just connected to the generator frame. This seems to be true of all the inverter generators I've looked at. Check out the wiring diagram in your Yamaha instruction manual and you should see the same thing. The round pin on the outlet is just connected to the frame and both line and neutral are floating with respect to the safety ground. The wiring diagrams I've seen for 60Hz alternator type generators shows the neutral connected to safety ground and to the frame of the generator.

In your home the neutral is connected to the safety ground at the load center (fusebox). Circuit testers look for a voltage differential between line and neutral and between line and safety ground. When the safety ground isn't connected to the neutral you get an open ground error since it can't find a path from neutral to ground and it has no way of checking if the safety ground actually goes to a driven ground.

GFI plugs work by sensing a difference in current between the line and neutral leads and considers any current difference as a fault and trips the breaker. Pushing the test button on a GFI connects a large (high resistance) resistor between line and neutral which should trip the breaker.

Surge protectors on the other hand work by shunting a voltage surge to ground (that green wire again) through a varistor to protect your equipment from over-voltage. Most surge protectors have three varistors, one between the line and neutral and one each from line and neutral to safety ground. High end surge suppressors have additional circuitry to see if all paths are complete and will not reset if the safety ground is absent.

The only reason I can think of for isolating the neutral from ground is to reduce EMI at the output. The inverter should be completely isolated from the primary alternator by some sort of common mode filter before the full wave bridge rectifier and bulk capacitor and there should be some type of filtering on the output but standards today are pretty stiff so maybe that configuration will give better noise suppression.

OK - now I'm curious. I'll haul out the o'scope and check the Honda and see if the neutral can be safely connected to the safety ground. Of course, then I'll have to haul out the EMI antenna and receiver and check for conducted and radiated interference with and without the neutral to safety ground connected. Boy, this sounds like a lot of work.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:08 PM   #46
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I was with you almost all the way down you report, but it I got lost in the last two paragraphs. I don’t think I see any way to solve the grounding problem so that my GFI or Open Ground can be corrected, Right.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:13 PM   #47
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I just found what I think is the way to solve my High Altitude issues.

There is a Yamaha jet made to re-jet the EF2400iS generator to run at High Altitude. The Part number is #1HX-1423E-30, for about $8.00. I ordered it from my local YAMAHA dealer.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:55 AM   #48
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Despite the name, GFCI works whether or not there is a ground connected -- All it takes is an imbalance between hot and neutral and it fires.

I can attest to that because I once touched an appliance that had the hot and neutral reversed so the frame was hot and I was standing on sand in bare feet. No wire ground was involved, but the GFCI tripped as it should.

I believe the name exists because it is *assumed* that the reason there is an imbalance is because something has faulted to ground, not that the ground is faulty, however I believe there are other ways to get an imbalance without involving ground.

Here's an excellent description of how GFCI's work:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/files/rv/gfi.pdf

Mike, were I you, I'd be asking the Yamaha people to test your generator for running too rich in the hopes that it will show and there's something to adjust or replace to fix it properly without having to juggle jets.
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:11 AM   #49
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Just a thought: If is running rich now and you rejet to a high altitude jet that runs leaner, it just may run OK at both high altitude and low altitude with the new jet.

Also: Check to see if there is a “Governor” that regulates the high RPM and if there is, an adjustment may fix the problem. I know that my Brigs and Stratton engines have an adjustable governor and I have adjusted them.

Ground: Personally, I would leave the ground issue alone. The last thing you would want is to create a safety issue by putting a voltage on the frame or to burn up your generator. I say this because I have over 20 years in the Army working with electronics on generator power. In one instance when the gen was connected incorrectly, it melted the tar out of the florescent lights in one of our electronic vans.

Another Also: Should you have an electrical problem with the camper connected to the tow vehicle I ask the question: Could it have an effect on the built in electronics of the tow vehicle? I know that when welding on a vehicle, the welders will disconnect the battery because they state it can blow up. Could you destroy the onboard $$$$$ computer?
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:22 PM   #50
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I spent the last few hours tearing into my McCullough to see if it has a governor or speed adjustment and if it does, it is buried under more bolt down things than I want to fool with. Did find the Inverter and a loose plug/jack so re-snaped all connections and there were quite a few so you might want to recheck your internal connections. Hope you have good luck with your Yamaha. DR
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:26 PM   #51
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Yamaha Service took it apart and checked everything and said it meets spec.

Very frustrating.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:50 AM   #52
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I'll highly support Darwin's recommendation to leave the grounding as the manufacturer set it unless you are following the manfacturer's specific instructions on something. They set it that way for a reason and unless you KNOW why, it's best not to mess with it.
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:38 AM   #53
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On the out side, front of the generator there is a post that is labeled ground. So I've been trying to find out how & where to use it.

It sounds like I could connect it to a metal stake in the ground, right?

What is so interesting to me is, no one at Yamaha Corp Customer Service., Yamaha trained Dealer Service have a clue as to what I'm talking about with Open Ground or what to do or not do about it.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:04 PM   #54
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On the out side, front of the generator there is a post that is labeled ground. So I've been trying to find out how & where to use it.

It sounds like I could connect it to a metal stake in the ground, right?

What is so interesting to me is, no one at Yamaha Corp Customer Service., Yamaha trained Dealer Service have a clue as to what I'm talking about with Open Ground or what to do or not do about it.
At the bottom of page 6 of your owners manual under "Electric Shock Prevention" is an illustration and sentence that advises to connect the ground terminal to an electrode buried in the ground.
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Old 09-18-2008, 01:34 PM   #55
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At the bottom of page 6 of your owners manual under "Electric Shock Prevention" is an illustration and sentence that advises to connect the ground terminal to an electrode buried in the ground.
Thanks, I missed that.
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Old 09-18-2008, 06:49 PM   #56
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While connecting the gen to a ground stake buried into mother earth it only works if you have another ground stake in mother earth for the camper. Both must be grounded.

Grounds: Having spent 20+ years in the Army in the Communications Security end of the business I dealt with multiple grounds. Red, Black, vehicle, generator, Building, etc.

Attended a Bell Labs presentation put on by two PhD degreed people who began to argue about grounds before the class begin and continued to argue for over an hour without coming to an agreement concerning the grounding issue.

It is one issue that is in the realm of Electronic Theory. Theory because it has not yet been proved to be a fact.
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I went to look at the Honda 2000 Inverter model today and lo and behold, it is in the EXACT case than my McCullouch is in (Except it is Red) and it has the exact same specifications: 2000 surge and 1,600 operating watts.
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