1 5/8" metal stud with spray foam?

[frazzledazzle]

So I'm tearing apart the inside of our 13' Cadet and I was trying to find a way to insulate and add some "structure" for fastening cabinets and shelves to. currently, there is small pieces of 1x2 fiberglassed to the shell that the cabinets were fastened to. Most of this wood is broken and needs replaced.

My idea = 1 5/8" steel studs, with a track cut to fit contour of roof and a flat track on the floor. Possibly PL the studs to the wall as well as fasten them to the tracks with some sort of adhesive on the screw to prevent it from loosing and rattling with vibrations. For insulation is was thinking about spray foam to the face of the studs and them cover the walls with pre-finished white paneling.

Good idea or bad idea? what are some of the negatives associated with this?

[tractors1]

What's PL?

Charlie Y

[Steve_N_Janna]

Tracks? Tell us more about the tracks.

It seems like steel studs would certainly add a lot of strength to the body. Is the added weight of the beams a concern?

PL - If you're referring to PL Construction Adhesive, my experience is that it is second only to epoxy. Good stuff.

[steve dunham]

PL 200, PL 300 ,PL 400 are construction adhesives . Comes in tubes that are used in a caulking gun .Good for gluing foam ,sheathing, studs or stripping to a substrate, sub flooring and laminated headers. Have you considered using 3/4" hat channel with 3/4" polyiscyanurate foil faced foam insulation (5.4 R factor)

[Night Sailor]

It sounds great. Should be warm too!

[frazzledazzle]

Thanks for the replies! You guys nailed the PL explanation, thank you.
The track I refer to is the same as the steel stud, 1 5/8, but without the pre formed holes for wires.
As soon as I posted my original post I though about using hat channel and foil back insulation as an alternative! Lose less space that way, but less insulation (not sure how much that's gonna matter)

[Night Sailor]

If you build the walk and pull the wires and then spray with closed cell foam, that will seal and bond everything together and support the wires so the don't move and break. As you spray you can press fit rigid foam panels in the voids and the fill the gaps with spray foam to save on cost. Some sort of thermal break between the inside wall and the studs like 3 M double sided tape would eliminate the need for many fasteners and reduce thermal conductivity as the screws would tend to sweat and rust.

[Night Sailor]

What about bracing for shear?

[steve dunham]

Windows have 3 to 10 times more heat loss than an insulated walls ,. Changing the windows from an R1 single pane window to an R5 thermal pane window would save as much or more energy than increasing your walls R Factor and you would not lose interior space . Insulation at a certain point adds cost with little energy savings . In a trailer as small as a 13 ft Scamp the energy payback on installing high R factor wall insulation will be non existent and probably will not increase your comfort level

[Night Sailor]

I agree on the thermal windows being a big improvement; these can be supplemented with moveable insulation. I have reflective panels for my vents and I'd like to get vent pillows.

My experience is the extra insulation does make a big difference in extreme cold. My camper is very well insulated and I've found some problem areas last winter and plan to address them this year. I found a two inch air gaps at the headboard at the crease. I plan to spray some foam in there but need to size it up better first, perhaps by drilling test holes or pulling back at the seam.

If you are a three season camper investing a lot of time in this is if doubtful usefulness. If you four season camp then you need to treat insulation as the most import aspect.

For summer, shade and fans are the best solution.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Night Sailor

I agree on the thermal windows being a big improvement; these can be supplemented with moveable insulation. I have reflective panels for my vents and I'd like to get vent pillows.

My experience is the extra insulation does make a big difference in extreme cold. My camper is very well insulated and I've found some problem areas last winter and plan to address them this year. I found a two inch air gaps at the headboard at the crease. I plan to spray some foam in there but need to size it up better first, perhaps by drilling test holes or pulling back at the seam.

If you are a three season camper investing a lot of time in this is if doubtful usefulness. If you four season camp then you need to treat insulation as the most import aspect.

For summer, shade and fans are the best solution.

After talking with Scamp ,Casita and EggCamper non of them say that their trailers are designed to be four season (Minimum temp of Approx 20 Deg F) Non of the three named trailers have insulated floors which presents another problem . I agree that insulation is an important factor but if you use the trailer only when the temperatures are above freezing , the loss of interior space may out weigh the energy savings / increased comfort level you gain . When I taught electric heat calculations at the local vocational college , many of my students were surprised to discover that the two greatest sources of heat loss in a home were the windows/doors and infiltration . R19 wall insulation stops over 80% of the walls heat loss . After that the cost of a higher wall insulation value is money chasing a diminishing energy savings.

[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

After talking with Scamp ,Casita and EggCamper none of them say that their trailers are designed to be four season (Minimum temp of Approx 20 Deg F).

I beg to differ, I am relatively certain that down to 20 degrees qualifies ANY rig as "four season capable" for me.

[Jared J]

Then you don't have a real winter.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jared J

Then you don't have a real winter.

I wanted to use my trailer for deer hunting in the "FALL" All 3 of the trailer manufacturers I ealled told me that their trailers were not designed for the temperature encountered at that time of year . Even the Escape with the insulated walls & floors + dual pain windows is not suited for a midwest winter.
I tried to explain ice fishing to a young Southern Georgia boy and he could not grasp the concept. I agree with you in that a lot of this forums members do not know what a real winter is.

[Night Sailor]

Bigfoot campers are true four season rigs, but better have a big supply of propane. I'm modifying a small trailer to carry extra propane for my pickup camper. If you have an insulated trailer, you need a pickup to carry the extra propane bottles or else a fixed location with electric and a supply of propane to suit your needs.

[Night Sailor]

Is say -20 deg F or C qualifies as a winter rig.

[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

a lot of this forums members do not know what a real winter is.

It is easy to dismiss and condemn, you are making the mistake of confusing not knowing what "real" Winter is with knowing and choosing not to be out in it. I primarily grew up in Idaho, and spent several years in Minnesota, Ohio, and Kentucky and now choose to live in Florida. And the coldest I have ever been was sitting in a deer stand in Alabama!

[steve dunham]

One year deer hunting in November on Minnesota's Iron Range it got to -31 Deg F with a wind chill around -50 Deg F . We camped in a 21 Ft trailer and burned up a 100 Lb. tank of propane in 4 days . The furnace ran 24 hours a day at at night the interior of the trailer dropped into the 50 Deg range . The 21 ft trailer was rated as a "Four Season Trailer"

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Timber Wolf

It is easy to dismiss and condemn, you are making the mistake of confusing not knowing what "real" Winter is with knowing and choosing not to be out in it. I primarily grew up in Idaho, and spent several years in Minnesota, Ohio, and Kentucky and now choose to live in Florida. And the coldest I have ever been was sitting in a deer stand in Alabama!

I choose to live in the Midwest . I do not like warm/ hot weather with high humidity . To each their own . I stand by my statement and I am not condemning anyone nor am I confused . I have never experienced a hurricane living in Wisconsin and don't really understand their inherent problems so I defer to people with knowledge on the subject. One nice thing about our winters in the lack of bugs except for the occasional snow flea