110 volt and 12 volt on the same switch? - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-03-2013, 08:28 AM   #15
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If you turn off the converter then you have a better chance of discharging your battery. I leave mine plugged 24/7 unless there is a problem with your converter.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:29 AM   #16
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Someone's concerned? Who knew! I thought we were celebrating random acts of electrification.

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Yessir!!!

Hey y'all, watch this!!
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:32 AM   #17
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Mixing 120 VAC and !2 VDC on the same device is a NO NO The switch in your picture is rated for AC only . You can not even mix low voltage and line voltage in the same enclosure or box without a divider to separate the systems . This is why power, ,antenna, phone and sound are kept isolated from each other . I worked on a job once where some idiot combined 5 VDC with 380 VAC in the same raceway . The conductors shorted together and destroyed over a quarter of a million dollars of programmable controllers . Codes only make sense when you understand why the rule is there or have seen the damage or injury that was a result of not following the code..
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:33 AM   #18
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I agree that what I have done is NOT up to CODE. The circuts are not connected and are labled inside the box so as to keep someone from getting confused. But Romex 12-2 with a ground is a totaly different type of wire than the automotive 12 gusge that is used for the water pump. I also understand that "they" say that you cant switch 12v on a switch designed for 110v. "They" will also explane how an internal combustion engine can not work. It simpley will melt the metal it is made of because of the temps generated in the process are way mpre than the metal will handel.

I dont intend to subject anyone to a harmfull situation or to be disrespectifull in any way. Thank you all for your insite into the Code and for the information you have on using switches for the intended use.

Looks like once i get a second Square D breaker I will put it on its own braker and use two boxxes in the same hole like Steve was talking about. Can even get a lighted 12v switch for it and that will get it all up to code. But for now all is well and the Magic Smoke is still in there.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:13 PM   #19
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AC/DC toggle switches

...There are some toggle sws which are made to handle both AC and DC. In my following photo, that is a toggle sw which was taken out from a...toy jeep for running it's motor. It is rated at 250vac-6A and DC at 8A. The toy jeep is powered by battery both of scales of 6VDC and 12VDC. For whoever who wants to use AC sw in both cases, IMO, just adding parallel capacitor (at picrofara) to shunt the arc and that would be suitable for the job. About codes, of course it is ignored at home-made in some aspect. Without it, one would have no clues totally ab gauge, amperage, current of the needed wire. To me, when I don't use the car for a long period, I unhook car battery completely to prevent internal current. This current, IMO will drain out your battery below the cranking voltage needed when you come back and start the car...and it works everytime I am far away. I will use that experience into my DIY project of camper...Also in my DIY project, DC toggle sw will be used to switch b/t DC supply from converter and battery. AC toggle sw will disconnect 120VAC supply to smart converter. IMO, even though when a battery is full charged, if converter is still connected to 120VAC supply, the current(small amount) is still running thru primary coil of adapter which causes un-necessay heat and could be humming noise in high power converter. Just my personal opinion, though.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:36 PM   #20
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Interesting idea!

Would you mind posting a closeup pic with the coverplate off? I'm curious about how it looks on the inside...

Thanks!

Francesca
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:15 PM   #21
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The fact it is not legal is well covered here, so I will just add that I would never take the chance of wiring it up that way myself. There are so many easy solutions that would see it done properly, why not do it so?

You have lots of room to add a simple 12V toggle switch there, that is what I would do, and as mentioned above, I would leave the battery on a floating charge whenever you can. Your lights and water pump will all be draining the battery anyway, and it would be much healthier for it to be kept at a full charge if possible.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:31 PM   #22
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Interesting idea!

Would you mind posting a closeup pic with the coverplate off? I'm curious about how it looks on the inside...

Thanks!

Francesca
Hi, there. If the question is for....me, then the following photo is the toggle sw with plate off. Right hand sw in the photo is the sw from toy jeep, using DC and rated at both AC and DC. Left hand sw is AC sw, still in the bag, rated at 15Amp, 125VAC or 10Amp, 250VAC
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:41 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Thinh View Post
...There are some toggle sws which are made to handle both AC and DC. In my following photo, that is a toggle sw which was taken out from a...toy jeep for running it's motor. It is rated at 250vac-6A and DC at 8A. The toy jeep is powered by battery both of scales of 6VDC and 12VDC. For whoever who wants to use AC sw in both cases, IMO, just adding parallel capacitor (at picrofara) to shunt the arc and that would be suitable for the job. About codes, of course it is ignored at home-made in some aspect. Without it, one would have no clues totally ab gauge, amperage, current of the needed wire. To me, when I don't use the car for a long period, I unhook car battery completely to prevent internal current. This current, IMO will drain out your battery below the cranking voltage needed when you come back and start the car...and it works everytime I am far away. I will use that experience into my DIY project of camper...Also in my DIY project, DC toggle sw will be used to switch b/t DC supply from converter and battery. AC toggle sw will disconnect 120VAC supply to smart converter. IMO, even though when a battery is full charged, if converter is still connected to 120VAC supply, the current(small amount) is still running thru primary coil of adapter which causes un-necessay heat and could be humming noise in high power converter. Just my personal opinion, though.
I did NOT say that they do not make switches that are both DC & AC rated just the switch in the picture is an AC only switch I think some of you are missing the point. By mixing Line voltage in the same box or on the same device introduces a hazard .You could end up with line voltage being present where it is not expected and is dangerous . For example a incorrectly wired home door bell system could have 132 VAC present on the door bell button rated at 30 volts Imagine standing on a wet concrete steps and touching the button. If in your attempt to save money or take the easy way out you kill yourself that's fine with me . but why ask a question if you do Not want to hear the answer
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I did NOT say that they do not make switches that are both DC & AC rated just the switch in the picture is an AC only switch I think some of you are missing the point. By mixing Line voltage in the same box or on the same device introduces a hazard .You could end up with line voltage being present where it is not expected and is dangerous . For example a incorrectly wired home door bell system could have 132 VAC present on the door bell button rated at 30 volts Imagine standing on a wet concrete steps and touching the button. If in your attempt to save money or take the easy way out you kill yourself that's fine with me . but why ask a question if you do Not want to hear the answer
I am totally agree with you in the aspect of combining AC&DC in the same box. As mentioned, I implied if one does it for his/her own use, as long as he/she knows what he/she is doing and with safe manner, it is OK to go ahead with extra caution as labelling for third party' usage. That's all. We are all members in the same group here. One...coconut at work of course couldn't beat a....whole bunch at work. Just MO...
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:57 PM   #25
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Looky here, folks, Chris stated that he has heard the gospel and intends to abide by its precepts. Mission accomplished.

Jack
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Mixing 120 VAC and !2 VDC on the same device is a NO NO The switch in your picture is rated for AC only . You can not even mix low voltage and line voltage in the same enclosure or box without a divider to separate the systems . This is why power, ,antenna, phone and sound are kept isolated from each other . I worked on a job once where some idiot combined 5 VDC with 380 VAC in the same raceway . The conductors shorted together and destroyed over a quarter of a million dollars of programmable controllers . Codes only make sense when you understand why the rule is there or have seen the damage or injury that was a result of not following the code..
...Talking ab short-way radio antennas, I had chance to work with short-way radio transmitter stations at...+30 years ago. At the bottom of every antenna, there was an underground steel grid as...safety and every service is a subject to LOCK-OUT procedures with multi-keys for different personnels, same as nowadays robotic technicians. Also sometimes one could see there is a steel-grid cage at some street power poles of high voltages for...safety of passerby with big sign of.. CAUTION. Without this cage, one walks underneath those high-voltage lines, a short circuit with...lightening arch will be launch into...his/her ....coconut from above and enough to......barbecue him/her. Just my knowledge, though....
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:10 PM   #27
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Jim's suggestion of a separate switch for the water pump located elsewhere makes much more sense. A lighted one to remind you it's on is even better. Also you have a fridge (dorm fridge I think?), an air conditioner, and a converter all on the same circuit. Might be a little high for a 15A. circuit? Raz
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:28 PM   #28
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"For whoever who wants to use AC sw in both cases, IMO, just adding parallel capacitor (at picrofara) to shunt the arc and that would be suitable for the job. "

DC switches have to deal with arc inherent in DC load and are designed as such. Adding a capacitor to an AC switch to deal with this arc only works until the capacitor fails (shorted fail), then you have no switching action!

C'MON! If you want to do something like this on your own, fine! But don't put this half information out there in a forum where someone that doesn't know the rest of the info might read it and think (s)he just learned something.

BTW, I have no issue with the original poster's solution, for himself. He explained himself and took responsibility.
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