110 volt and 12 volt on the same switch? - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-03-2013, 07:28 PM   #29
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Thank you Peter. I agree that the first mention in the thread of separate enclosures, isolation of systems and use of appropriate components should have been enuf to to turn Chris away from questionable expediency and was indeed enuf to do so.

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Old 04-03-2013, 09:18 PM   #30
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Hi, there. If the question is for....me, then the following photo is the toggle sw with plate off. Right hand sw in the photo is the sw from toy jeep, using DC and rated at both AC and DC. Left hand sw is AC sw, still in the bag, rated at 15Amp, 125VAC or 10Amp, 250VAC
Thanks!

But I meant the question for the O.P.- I'm curious about what it looks like behind the plate in this pic.



Francesca
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:43 PM   #31
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Raz you are correct that the load on the 15 amp circuit is close to its max. There is no a/c unit in there now. The plan is to go to a 30 amp supply line with a second 15 amp breaker. One breaker for the converter and a second for the fridge and the a/c unit. And it will be at that time when I go to a separated box for the lighted water pump switch and the outlet. According to the numbers rated on the units I have a little wiggle room if the a/c was in there, but it is not so it will be all good until upgrade time.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post

Thanks!

But I meant the question for the O.P.- I'm curious about what it looks like behind the plate in this pic.

Francesca
Ok this is how I found it. The wore attached to the ground lug is the one going to the converter. The other that is just wrapped around is the ground coming from the breaker box. There is no wonder why the GFI didn't work properly before.


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Old 04-03-2013, 11:15 PM   #33
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I have no issues with the setup, I'm using a 120 volt light switch to run my 12v lights...if it fails, whatever. I didn't find any 12v switch that looked acceptable to me.

However, for a few dollars, you can get a pd4045 or similar setup, have plenty of ac breakers, modern dc fuses, and a smart charger that never needs to be shutoff. I went that route to throw out all the fuses, breaker box, old charger, etc., into one compact unit. It just seemed easier/cleaner to me.

If you need to save the money though, rock on. Personally, I'm the jerk that says if somebody can't tell the difference between romex and 12v primary wire, and cause them to stop and think, they shouldn't be messing around in there, anyway...
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:41 PM   #34
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I also understand that "they" say that you cant switch 12v on a switch designed for 110v. "They" will also explane how an internal combustion engine can not work. It simpley will melt the metal it is made of because of the temps generated in the process are way mpre than the metal will handel.
The two are entirely different: someone who understands the difference between switching AC and switching DC explains why for good reasons the current-breaking capacity of a contact set is lower for DC than for AC, while someone who has no clue what is going on in an engine misinterprets some data and makes a ridiculous assertion about metal melting. "They" is not the name of one person who is always right or always wrong.

If you don't understand the reasoning behind a particular statement that's okay - we all have lots to learn - but I suggest not simply dismissing anything you don't understand.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:56 AM   #35
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"For whoever who wants to use AC sw in both cases, IMO, just adding parallel capacitor (at picrofara) to shunt the arc and that would be suitable for the job. "

DC switches have to deal with arc inherent in DC load and are designed as such. Adding a capacitor to an AC switch to deal with this arc only works until the capacitor fails (shorted fail), then you have no switching action!

C'MON! If you want to do something like this on your own, fine! But don't put this half information out there in a forum where someone that doesn't know the rest of the info might read it and think (s)he just learned something.

BTW, I have no issue with the original poster's solution, for himself. He explained himself and took responsibility.
All info at your fingertips nowadays if one is willing to learn, compared to +25 years ago without enet...http://www.eaa.org/sportaviationmag/...2_switches.pdf
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:06 AM   #36
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Ok this is how I found it. The wore attached to the ground lug is the one going to the converter. The other that is just wrapped around is the ground coming from the breaker box. There is no wonder why the GFI didn't work properly before.


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Me thinks Francesca wanted to see what it looks like now, after you rewired it!!??
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:16 AM   #37
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DC switches have to deal with arc inherent in DC load and are designed as such. Adding a capacitor to an AC switch to deal with this arc only works until the capacitor fails (shorted fail), then you have no switching action!
Hi Leonard. I am a little confused by your statement. Perhaps you can clarify?

When you say "arc inherent in DC loads" do you mean reactive (i.e. inductive) loads? I am not sure arcing is an issue with a purely resistive load.

What characteristics would be employed to make a DC switch that would be different from an AC switch?

Assuming the capacitor is chosen with a proper voltage value, why would it fail?

Thanks, Raz
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:52 AM   #38
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Chris, now aren't you happy that you posted your handiwork?
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:59 AM   #39
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Me thinks Francesca wanted to see what it looks like now, after you rewired it!!??
I will have to get one the next time I pull the cover off. I will send it to her in a PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:12 AM   #40
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Chris, now aren't you happy that you posted your handiwork?
It's OK. It has given lite to possible issues that can come about. But I really do think the guys here are trying to make sure that everyone understands that I have used the switch for a purpose that it was not intended for. Also that there is a danger when working on the electrical wiring if you do not understand what you are doing. I understand the danger in putting the 12 and 110 in the same box, but didn't really consider anyone poking around in there but me.

Like using a milk crate for a step. If it collapses and you bust your butt don't be mad about it. It wasn't designed to be a step!

Oh and I got to get some pics up of that clear tubing going to my stove! Now that should be a Gas!
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:04 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by P. Raz View Post
Hi Leonard. I am a little confused by your statement. Perhaps you can clarify?

When you say "arc inherent in DC loads" do you mean reactive (i.e. inductive) loads? I am not sure arcing is an issue with a purely resistive load.

What characteristics would be employed to make a DC switch that would be different from an AC switch?

Assuming the capacitor is chosen with a proper voltage value, why would it fail?

Thanks, Raz
Raz, DC loads are much more difficult to break. They never cross zero, so the current interrupting capacity must be de-rated for a switch that is designed for AC. As noted by others, there are switches that work for both, but are typically rated lower in a DC service.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:28 PM   #42
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It always ceases to amaze me how those who know everything take 3 pages to agree on a single thing. People have more fun than anybody and sometimes in some conditions a horse runs faster than one that's standing still. I think all the necessary conditions have been met for a quick getaway. C y'all.

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