ALERT: Does your state require permit to alter?

[RogerDat]

I think purchaser driven inspection is different than Ann Arbor, there you have to get the inspectors to inspect and sign off that no permit requiring modifications have been done, or pay all the fees and have all the inspections to get the sign off. Can't sell without that "approval".

Replacement in kind does not generally require permits. Moving electrical, plumbing, or structural changes would. Can put in new gas furnace or replace kitchen cupboards, counter, sink, flooring etc. without one. Running a new gas line for the furnace? eh that gets a little bit iffy. I do look for signs of "new" work when purchasing a house. It can in a general sense tell me a lot about the quality of work I can't see.

I generally go with what I figure works best for me. Added a vestibule to the front of my home, pulled permit. Partly as insurance that I did not screw something up with tying into the existing house and partly because our road led to the twp. offices so chances of having it go unnoticed was pretty low.

Ran 220 electric service to the garage no permit, but then I know a couple of electricians to draw on for advice and have done that sort of work. There was also no way I could screw it up as badly as the existing electrical. Not sure which was worse the way they had just hung wires from the rafters or the place where the wood stove chimney had burned off the insulation from the romex. Purchaser of the house had a brother who is a builder, he inspected thoroughly. No issues.

When it comes to campers I would be most concerned about a camper being flipped (unless I knew the owner to have a solid FGRV reputation) lot more incentive to do the work in a more slipshod manner if not doing it for ones own use but just to get it done so a sale can be made.

Not sure any inspection or permit rules or regulations can effectively replace doing your own due diligence. I hire a professional for home inspections but I'm not afraid to ask questions or check things myself either.

[TomK]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

I did hear that Ann Arbor now requires the building inspector to check houses being sold for alterations that don't have permits... mostly so the fees can be charged would be my guess.

I lived in a MI town 20 years ago that sent the tax assessor around to see if he could spot any improvements that could be used to raise the value of your home. They would then raise your taxes. He went around during working hours knocking on doors, and if no one answered, would look in any windows he could access! He got caught by neighbors and the practice was finally banned.

In the same town, city employees would knock on doors and if dogs barked, the address would be checked to make sure the folks had their dogs licensed.

I don't mind pulling a permit for major renovations or repairs on a home, but travel trailers? Give 'em an inch....

Tom

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

. Can put in new gas furnace or replace kitchen cupboards, counter, sink, flooring etc. without one. Running a new gas line for the furnace? eh that gets a little bit iffy. .

No iffy about it here. You need a permit when replacing a gas furnace whether or not you are putting in a new gas line or not. A new gas line to a new furnace or stove needs a permit as well.

No permit needed for replacing cupboards, floors, counters etc here either- but if you move old or install any new electrical outlets a permit is needed.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by TomK

In the same town, city employees would knock on doors and if dogs barked, the address would be checked to make sure the folks had their dogs licensed.

Don't know about anyone else, but that wasn't my dog. It was my sister's, visiting from (fill in location of your choice) and I am doggy sitting while she is (again, fill in activity of you choice). And you got the dog so frightened it was cowering in the corner when I got home, so stay the h#%* off my property in the future or you will be checking to see if my attorney is licensed.


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[floyd]

State inspectors were responsible for the sag tests and construction standards on the I-24 bridge at Metropolis.
While the inspectors suffered from hip dysplasia from sitting on their wallets, the repairs on the approved and finished brand new bridge exceeded 24 million dollars if I recall correctly.

Then there are those approved construction methods and inspections done on the I-35 bridge at Minneapolis (the spans were reportedly only stacked in place like a child's building blocks.)

There is no substitute for competent work done with integrity.
My local building inspector can't read any better than I, he certainly couldn't care more about my results, and he has less experience.
He does, however, get a title and a paycheck which is some comfort to some...I guess!

[C&G in FL]

I live in a steel house. The framing is steel, the partitions are steel, the trusses are steel, the roof is metal, and the siding is steel. Only wood is in the kitchen cabinets. Baseboards are a composite material.
The inspector insisted that the builder do a perimeter termite treatment to get a certificate of occupancy. Same inspector would probably insist on the installation of a screen door on a submarine.......brilliant, so brilliant!


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[RogerDat]

Next door neighbor was always doing something to annoy the twp. or county. Inspector came around middle of the day when he was gone, knocked then started looking in the windows and taking pictures.

Wife was taking a nap, work up at the knock, by the time she got up it was to see man peering through window with a camera. Inspector found himself peering at pistol while she called 911.

Neighbor and twp. came to an understanding.... make an appointment if you want to look around inside.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

No iffy about it here. You need a permit when replacing a gas furnace whether or not you are putting in a new gas line or not. A new gas line to a new furnace or stove needs a permit as well.

No permit needed for replacing cupboards, floors, counters etc here either- but if you move old or install any new electrical outlets a permit is needed.

Price for new HVAC system delivered to the door...$1885.
Peace of mind knowing it was done right...Priceless!

Price for the same system installed by local dealer...$6400.
Peace of mind relative to how well you know the work and the dealer.

Savings... the price of two weeks for two on the tropical island of your choice.

Those who can't do the job right should pay the freight, but by definition they are not qualified to make the decision to burden those who can.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by floyd

Those who can't do the job right should pay the freight, but by definition they are not qualified to make the decision to burden those who can.

Precisely.


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[TomK]

Originally Posted by floyd

Price for new HVAC system delivered to the door...$1885.
Peace of mind knowing it was done right...Priceless!

Price for the same system installed by local dealer...$6400.
Peace of mind relative to how well you know the work and the dealer.

Savings... the price of two weeks for two on the tropical island of your choice.

Those who can't do the job right should pay the freight, but by definition they are not qualified to make the decision to burden those who can.

Very eloquent, as usual Floyd. Oh, and BTW, there is just enough room between those two palm trees for our Scamp.

Tom

[TomK]

Originally Posted by CPW

Don't know about anyone else, but that wasn't my dog. It was my sister's, visiting from (fill in location of your choice) and I am doggy sitting while she is (again, fill in activity of you choice). And you got the dog so frightened it was cowering in the corner when I got home, so stay the h#%* off my property in the future or you will be checking to see if my attorney is licensed.


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Carl, I like the way you think. The problem we face here is that lawsuits don't faze the politicians. After all, it's the taxpayer's money that's on the line. They have nothing to lose.

Tom

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by TomK

Very eloquent, as usual Floyd. Oh, and BTW, there is just enough room between those two palm trees for our Scamp.

Tom

But where would the hammock go if the scamp was between the trees? Arranging a campsite, almost as difficult as .......

Never mind you get me and the scamp there and I'll figure it out!

[Bob Miller]

Geee..... Just maybe can we get this thread back to FGRV concerns.

[Roger C H]

I just received this message from Gary Bunzer:

Hi Roger...thank you for your recent email to the RV Doctor Website! It is
> our sincere hope the website has been beneficial to you as you travel. Now,
> on to your question;
>
> There are only a few "code" states left; WA remains one. The L&I laws
> pertain primarily to RV builders. Regular maintenance, repair and
> installations by RV owners once the coach is sold is not normally governed
> unless it involves a safety concern. The RVIA seal governs the "standard" by
> which all RVs should be built, the NFPA 1192 is the governing document. Some
> code states still require a certification and a state seal, but there's only
> 4 or 5 that I'm aware of.
>
> In the aftermarket, unless major construction modifications are altered,
> I've never heard of the state demanding a permit. My dad, for instance, made
> a 5th wheel trailer out of a conventional travel trailer for his own
> personal use. THAT probably would qualify for a state permit and inspection,
> but the addition of RV-approved products would not normally require
> anything. That's one reason why it's important to only install "approved"
> products.
>
> Thanks again for contacting the RV Doctor Website! Hope this was helpful to
> you. Remember, RVing is more than a hobby, it¹s a lifestyle!
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary
> The RV Doctor
> RV Doctor Videos
> The Video Home of the RV Doctor, Gary Bunzer - YouTube

Roger, currently there are only three "code" states that work with RVIA on
RV standards; WA, OR and NE. I'm not aware of how they actually impact the
RV industry however. Bruce Hopkins at RVIA is the VP in charge of Codes &
Standards for all member manufacturers. He would be the one to talk to for
the details.

You can publish my earlier response if you wish. Just know that it is simply
my opinion since I'm certainly not an attorney. Nor do I speak "for" RVIA,
just parallel with them. Nice website, by the way.

[Bobbie Mayer]

Washington is nuts about permits, anyway. For example, before I can get a building permit to replace my existing house, I have to get another permit that says I have access to the road the house is on- yes, the same road that the driveway already accesses. And another to say I have access to the water that already is piped into the existing house (and they made a little note saying "this is only for new construction" although they must know the house already has water.) Plus the road access one has a check box to assure no eagles are nesting on the treeless property.

So it would not surprise me if to get a trailer permit to change a lightbulb to LED you would be expected to prove you have access to the highway and that no eagles are nesting on or in your trailer.

[Borden]

O my
I am a journeyman but still feel this is excessive; inspection for some renos? maybe but fee should be small. Have worked as a carpenter, plumber and residential electrician. 12v dc is not 220v ac and plumbing is not the same as well. Gas is different though leak and we have a problem, maybe then it would be a good idea. Let us do the work and have the local rv or gas people inspect it? In Ontario is is law to have a gas/carbon monoxide detector in the trailer if it has a stove, fridge or propane device in it.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Borden

Let us do the work and have the local rv or gas people inspect it? .

That is very do able as in these parts anyways. There is nothing about requiring a permit that restricts who actually does the work. The thing about having the permit is it is really all about the final inspection (that comes with the permit process) of the work. So if your a handy guy who knows what your doing you can take out a permit & do the work yourself and the only extra cost to you is the cost of the permit itself.

[C&G in FL]

I still have a problem with that in that some "inspectors" are less competent than the individual who does the actual work.


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[Carol H]

Originally Posted by CPW

I still have a problem with that in that some "inspectors" are less competent than the individual who does the actual work.


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Very true but is that not the case with just about every profession? Sadly we don't live in a world where everyone is great at their jobs.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carol H

That is very do able as in these parts anyways. There is nothing about requiring a permit that restricts who actually does the work. The thing about having the permit is it is really all about the final inspection (that comes with the permit process) of the work. So if your a handy guy who knows what your doing you can take out a permit & do the work yourself and the only extra cost to you is the cost of the permit itself.

That is really the exact problem. Often you must pick the inspector's contractor or risk failing inspection repeatedly, or suffering delays when he fails to show up at appointed times.
I've seen permits denied, and permits issued with no follow-up inspection, based entirely on the the identity of the applicant or his contractor.