ALERT: Does your state require permit to alter? - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-13-2014, 01:56 AM   #1
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Exclamation ALERT: Does your state require permit to alter?

In certain instances, Washington State does:

Recreational Vehicles
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:13 AM   #2
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LMAO. Technically, attaching the stinky slinky to the camper is a modification to the plumbing system, or if the trailer manufacturer supplies a 10-foot slinky and it is replaced with a 15-foot it has been modified. Or if you bring a newspaper inside, paper being flammable, you have affected fire safety. Adding a new vent fan would be a mechanical/structural mod as would going to a different sized tire or installing a bypass on the hot water heater. This would seem to be another governmental attempt to wrangle more money from its citizens under the guise of "we are only looking out for your safety."


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Old 10-13-2014, 06:23 AM   #3
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What's amazing is the fees. If I lived in WA the fees for our mods might be more than the cost of the trailer. Initial design, design review, travel to inspect, inspection fees, ..... Thank god for New Hampshire.
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:29 AM   #4
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That's why if I lived in Washington my trailer would remain totally stock......no mods.
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:59 AM   #5
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Even more amazing is that I don't see any mention of requiring inspection of trailers brought in from other states and countries.....

I will be in WA for a few weeks and have a friend that works for L&I. I'll see what I can find out and what they are using for their "Safety Standard".
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:28 AM   #6
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It appears to be standard language from the uniform building code for residential structures . In our area modifications ,deletions or additions to structural components, mechanical, plumbing or electrical systems require a permit and inspection . A trailer would meet the definition of a residential structure if it has bathroom facilities ,sleeping facilities, a heating system ,an electrical system, cooking facilities etc . The national codes for plumbing ,heating ,gas and electrical all have sections covering RV,s .Washington State has chosen to enforce the code as adopted .Many states adopt the code but choose not to enforce them. The fees are usually based on the cost of the job and the cost to process the permit and inspection . In most cases the fees do not cover the cost of enforcement.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:15 AM   #7
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I still find it hard to believe that any state would expect me to spend hundreds of dollars and many hours of my time applying for a permit if I wanted to add another 12v outlet, or install a detachable shore power cord on my camper. Let's just say Richard the non-handy man wanted either of these mods but did not possess the expertise to do it. So he goes to Camping World and has the "pros" install the items. Is the State of Washington going to insist he draws a permit so that they can do the work? On the other hand, it would be OK to add a 12v outlet or a shore power cord to a cargo van if it didn't have a bathroom, heater, cooking facilities, etc. because the cargo van technically is not an RV, even if it is slept in. Seems to me to be a total lack of common sense.


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Old 10-13-2014, 10:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
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This would seem to be another governmental attempt to wrangle more money from its citizens under the guise of "we are only looking out for your safety."
I for one remember that back in the day when growing up I was exposed from childhood to mechanical things and the physics of how different things work by watching and "helping" my Dad and my Grandpa. We all took "Shop" classes in school. We were taught to be self-sufficient. The majority of work involved physical labor and mechanical aptitude.

Today that idea has all but vanished. People are not taught these things. But people have vague ideas about DIY and no fear to try it. They go out and buy a water heater and attempt to install it, or add more 115 volt outlets, and in the process burn the house down because they did not understand the details about doing something properly.

I see this as where the fear of propane appliances comes from, and where ever stricter building codes and inspection requirements come from. To those of us who know how to be self sufficient, we may jump to the conclusion of government intrusion in our daily lives. But we are becoming an endangered "species" as more people aren't self sufficient (but think they are), and need supervision.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:41 AM   #9
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It "kinda" looks like it would cost over $225 in fees if one were to install an extra 12VDC outlet and comply with the letter of the law.

But there is something called "Self Certification" listed on the 2nd page of fees. I will be at a WA courthouse on Friday and will stop by L&I and get a reading.

As there is no mention otherwise, it would seem that even places like Camping World would have to pull a permit.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:43 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson View Post
To those of us who know how to be self sufficient, we may jump to the conclusion of government intrusion in our daily lives. But we are becoming an endangered "species" as more people aren't self sufficient, and need supervision.

Yes Frederick, I think you are correct in your assessment. While there are some DIY projects I will not attempt because I may not have the expertise, I guess I don't feel that I should have to pay some bureaucrat to look at work I have done and I know it is done correctly to tell me that it is OK, when I already know that. And I surely wouldn't replace a propane appliance if I wasn't sure of what I was doing. I'm not sure we are an endangered species; I just don't think competent DIYs should be penalized because if the screw-ups of less than competent DIYs.


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Old 10-13-2014, 10:57 AM   #11
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Codes are a legal acknowledgement that we have made mistakes and people have been injured or died due to these mistakes . People with the knowledge and training to do certain tasks have no fear of inspections ,in fact we welcome them .
When I did electrical work in people's homes where they and their children lived ,the last thing I wanted was for them to be harmed by my actions . We all make mistakes and inspections benefit me as well as the homeowner . I suggest you read the IAEI publication and see the number of fires and deaths caused by installations that were not code compliant . If the person who made the unsafe installation was the only one to suffer from their actions then so be it but that seldom is the case . Take time to look in the NEC and you will see that much of the code is written by insurance companies ,who often pay the financial costs of faulty , unsafe installations . If one values money over life then do as you please
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Old 10-13-2014, 11:25 AM   #12
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ALERT: Does your state require permit to alter?

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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Codes are a legal acknowledgement that we have made mistakes and people have been injured or died due to these mistakes . People with the knowledge and training to do certain tasks have no fear of inspections ,in fact we welcome them .
When I did electrical work in people's homes where they and their children lived ,the last thing I wanted was for them to be harmed by my actions . We all make mistakes and inspections benefit me as well as the homeowner . I suggest you read the IAEI publication and see the number of fires and deaths caused by installations that were not code compliant . If the person who made the unsafe installation was the only one to suffer from their actions then so be it but that seldom is the case . Take time to look in the NEC and you will see that much of the code is written by insurance companies ,who often pay the financial costs of faulty , unsafe installations . If one values money over life then do as you please

Steve,

I don't think not wanting to pay hundreds of dollars to get a permit to install an extra 12v outlet means that I value money over life. On the other hand, if I were building my own fireplace, I would welcome an inspection and gladly pay for it. I am well aware of codes and fully understand their purpose. Also, I am fully aware that inspectors are as susceptible to making mistakes as are tradesmen. And the fact that codes are written by insurance companies rather than licensed electricians, plumbers, etc. means that common sense may sometimes be lacking. If you think that it is acceptable to pay hundreds to have a couple of splices for an extra 12v outlet inspected, by all means please do so.


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Old 10-13-2014, 12:07 PM   #13
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I think it's a big jump in risk management to equate wiring a house properly with someone installing a 12VDC water pump and a faucet where none formerly existed as I just did, albeit in the Golden (not Evergreen) State.

So far it sounds like WA is the only state with this level of "protection". Is it that the rest of the states are out of step? Or perhaps just one????

My business in WA may take me as far as Olympia and I will just bet that the closer I get to the Brewery, the more protective L&I will be.

One could file a "Freedom of Information Act" request and find out just how often that part of the code is used/enforced, but that would take spending even more money to find out what our taxes are, or aren't, doing.
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Old 10-13-2014, 12:11 PM   #14
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People are not taught these things. .....I see this as where the fear of propane appliances comes from,

Umm, no. I am a Carpenter, have several construction related licenses (Building, Mechanical, Plumbing, Electrical). Grew up on a real farm, and have been involved in building every kind of building there is, except maybe a dam. My fear of propane comes from having lived in an older trailer that had propane appliances, because fire burns and gas & smoke kills. I have been burnt, smoked, and gassed enough in my life. My fear comes FROM understanding propane appliances and the dangers involved. Fire in a very small trailer, is very, very bad. People advocating others to not worry about aging gas appliances (and associated piping) in old trailers is doing them a grave (pun intended) dis-service. I have a friend who works for the State Parks here. He says every year they hear about campers found dead from propane leaks in their trailer. They even have a name for them, "Pinks", because appearantly they turn pink in the process (I am kind of a pink hue to start with). And this is in Florida, were you would think not a lot of heaters and such are required!
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