Battery location - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-28-2006, 06:29 AM   #15
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Are you aware that every Cadilac de Ville has a battery under the rear seat. It is a sealed lead acid battery. I don't think they would put one there if it was unsafe.

The only danger is if under heavy charging the hydrogen generated would leak out and be ignited somehow. There is a very minute probability that this would happen.
The battery in located in a vented box. The Cadillac manual warns about making sure the vent hose is attached and about open flame in the vicinity of the battery, particularly during charging. I don't consider this a remote possiblity in what is a small room with gas cooking appliances.

But, to each his own.
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Old 04-28-2006, 09:00 PM   #16
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Here is a "reasonable" price in a vented battery box that I have found:

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-conv...oxes-vented.htm



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Old 04-28-2006, 09:11 PM   #17
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Here's an even better "deal" - though I do not know how they are to deal with:

http://www.marinersdirect.com/shorts/detai...hp?ITEM=5720159



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Old 05-02-2006, 11:02 PM   #18
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All of the millions of VW Beatles had the battery under the rear seat. I never heard of a safety problem with that. BUT, anyone who has messed around with old VW's knows that the floor under the battery is often eaten away from battery acid. To protect other things that might be stored on the floor in your battery storage area, it would be really cheap insurance to spend the 30 bucks on a vented container such as the one ttmatson referenced.

Bob
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Old 05-03-2006, 12:05 AM   #19
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All of the millions of VW Beatles had the battery under the rear seat. I never heard of a safety problem with that. BUT, anyone who has messed around with old VW's knows that the floor under the battery is often eaten away from battery acid. To protect other things that might be stored on the floor in your battery storage area, it would be really cheap insurance to spend the 30 bucks on a vented container such as the one ttmatson referenced.

Bob
I watched a neighbors VW burn. He drove home went into the house and boom, the battery blew up. One crispy VW. This was a buss not a bug.
I think I'll keep my battery out on the tongue.
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Old 05-03-2006, 05:59 AM   #20
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Most of the VW fires were from rubber fuel lines that broke and leaked onto hot manifolds. I had a buddy who had a microbus go up in smoke too, only his was on the freeway.

The issue with batteries when they charge isn't the release of hydrogen, it's the hydrogen gas concentration build-up. As with any fuel, (wheat or soybean dust included) it has to reach a specific concentration in the surrounding air for it to oxidize (burn or explode). The most critical place for that concentration is at the battery caps in the top of the battery's cells when it's charging. After that, if the battery is in a small confined space without being adequately vented to atmosphere, eventually the air-to-hydrogen ratio can build up to an explosive level.

I remind you that you can extinguish a lit match in liquid gasoline. You are probably much more at risk of explosion from gasoline vapor spilling from the fill spout every time you fill your car's gas tank, or when you get gas and a truck is filling the station's tanks; and few of us have ever seen either of those occur.

While a hydrogen explosion can happen with batteries, as a practical matter, I just don't think that a battery encased in a strapped-down, vented standard RV-style plastic box in a compartment vented with refrigerator vent-sized holes is going to be a problem, even with a cooking stove above it. There is just too much free air exchange from the refrigerator vents for hydrogen to build up or be a problem. Lots of RVs (including my Airstream) have vented battery compartments inside the body. They have just a wooden box with a battery tray in them, and a small vent in the door. I have yet to hear of or personally have a problem with them.

Roger
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Old 05-03-2006, 07:29 PM   #21
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Just adding my two cents worth. There are two issues.

One, is that a discharged battery will generate significant hydrogen during recharge, or boosting. That is why the final connection during boosting should ALWAYS be done at the charging vehicle. In fact, in the good old days of all metal vehicles, I had a 30 foot positive cable and a 4 foot negative cable, making the final connection bumper-to-bumper. Any spark or open flame around a charging battery risks fire or explosion.

The second issue is one of battery acid. this eats everything, and I would never have a battery outside a plastic box.

Combining the two, a number of years ago, a colleague of mine was boosting his car. He made the right initial connection, but once his car started, he disconnected that battery first. The subsequent explosion scarred him for life, and he lost some vision in one eye.

Thiss is definitely nothing to fool around with.

Victor
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Old 05-03-2006, 11:49 PM   #22
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you guys are on the right track! vent the battery to the outside, and make sure its in a spill proof container, and then make sure it stays away from heat! I dont think I would mount it next to the heater. It would give off gas the same way as in charging!

And for the Volkswagon incedent, I know three costomers that had battery fires in there bugs! All were from the bottom of the back seat touching the terminal posts and setting the horse hair on fire! two of the three had the wrong battery, and the last ong had a great big guy sitting back there. Man did he get a hot seat!
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Old 05-05-2006, 11:57 PM   #23
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Ok, I did a little home work on the hydogen from the battery. And for the most part, If you charge the battery at its max c rating, roughly 20 amps, you could fill the egg with enough hydrogen to make a flash of fire in 3 weeks! Its not thet big a deal apparently the only people that really blow up from battery charging hydrogen, are people that exceed the c rating for extended amounts of time! and for hydrogen to make a flash of fire, you need 4% hydrogen with your standard air supply.


This eazes my mind, cause Im going to put a group 31 in my trailer under the front bunk. Im going to hook up to the vent, and run its natural vent out side, and leave the battery exposed to dissapate any hydrogen that gets by the cap. Im only going to charge at a max of 10 amps(5 c) so for me to get 4% hydrogen in my trailer, I would have to srink wrap it air tite, then come back in a year.

4% is the unstable mark for hydrogen, at 15% it would blow windows out of your trailer. At 4% you might loose an eye browe! anyone feel better about this?
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Old 05-06-2006, 03:41 AM   #24
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welllllllllllllll, my little trailer came with NO battery and there is no place to put in on the front outside, so I too am looking into installing it inside and have been going over the "enclosed, vented outside OR a regular battery box" . . . I still haven't decided, tho I tend to fall into the camp that there just won't be enuff gas to cause a problem EXCEPT for one little problem - I have a very hard time "trusting" mechanical things - thus while I "know" I can set the charger, what is to say that the charger will NOT malfunction? (possibly OVERcharging causing a "gassy" situation). Therein lies the rub - I intend to have a "small solar" charger setup as well as landline charger - - - anything mechanical is just like anything "human" prone to a failure - - - so I'm still on the fence as to which way to go decisions decisions decisions
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Old 05-06-2006, 08:48 AM   #25
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Re: "homework on hydrogen"

Not me. You sold me, Ryan. I love it when you guys with the academic skills to analyze and produce cold, logical, numerical answers volunteer their conclusions to help us "intuitively artistic" types get comfortable with our little hunches. Thanks.
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Old 05-06-2006, 10:38 AM   #26
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Thank you Myron for your kind words. But Im more the spacial, mechanical type like yourself! I just happen to love electric model planes. So It seems that Im allways charging a battery or 2.

As for TT, You are very right! If you over charge your battery, you will produce double the amount of hydrogen gas. this is why Im going to use the factory vent that came on the battery. If by chance you boil your battery95% of the gas produced will go out the vent to the out side. That small percent that slips by the cap, wont be enough to make a mixture of 4% of the trailer.And thats the reason Im not putting mine in a plastic box. the plastic box now becomes an atmosphere. you can raise that atmosphere to 10% really easy in an over charge situation. Still an eazy fix, would be to vent the top of the plastic box. Hydrogen goes up!
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Old 05-06-2006, 12:22 PM   #27
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Ryan,
Thanks for the insight
So I think I'll go with a regular Battery Box (in case of leakage, etc., it will be contained) and install a tube to vent through the floor of the trailer - seems like the "easiest" and best compromise for my situation.

Seems that with a bit of discussion things tend to solve themselves - I love these forums with so many helpful opinions, ideas, and YES even logic
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Old 05-06-2006, 01:28 PM   #28
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...think I'll go with a regular Battery Box (in case of leakage, etc., it will be contained) and install a tube to vent through the floor of the trailer ....
Not sure that a vent on the floor will do you much good. Hydrogen probably goes UP not down. Thus as the gas fills the area; the hydrogen will go UP and push the oxegen down out the floor vent, leaving a pocket fuel ready hydrogen at the top. That's probably why in the one pictured above; the vent is at the end of a tube that rises above the box.

Nowwww when the trailer is flying down the road, that's different cause the air flow under the trailer may cause a pressure differencial that will suck out what ever gases are in their but that is only speculation on my part. Still though the trailer sits more than it gets pulled down the road.
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