Battery recharging?

[Lfoxmont]

This is probably a dumb question...but........the battery sitting in my camper.....how does it recharge? When I'm working on the interior, I'm plugged into my household power to use the lights so I don't use the battery. However, when I'm using the battery while camping, all I'm doing is using it up. Sorry, but I had to ask.

[mary and bob]

If your Scamp has a power converter, that should charge the battery when plugged in to your house power. It also could be wired so it charges when towing it, otherwise you'll have to use an automotive battery charger. I'm not familiar with how Scamp does their wiring, and it probably varies for different model trailers.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Lfoxmont

This is probably a dumb question...but........the battery sitting in my camper.....how does it recharge? When I'm working on the interior, I'm plugged into my household power to use the lights so I don't use the battery. However, when I'm using the battery while camping, all I'm doing is using it up. Sorry, but I had to ask.

Your battery is being charged when:
a, You're connected to shore power.
b. When towing, provided there's a charge line.
or c. when you some other charging device like a battery charger connected or solar panels connected.

Not a dumb question, no such thing.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by mary and bob

If your Scamp has a power converter, that should charge the battery when plugged in to your house power.

Linda, your profile says you have a 1982 13' Burro; if it's something else, let us know.

Most converters do charge the battery, but some older ones - including the one in my 1979 Boler - do not; I don't know what's in a Burro, and I hear some were sold as "kits" so perhaps the original owner could have put anything in. For those of us with non-charging converters that leaves the other options mentioned: a connection to the tow vehicle, solar panels, or a separate charger run by AC power.

[Lfoxmont]

Brian.......I just checked the description the PO posted.....he listed a 20 amp power converter........that's what you're referring to? Then I guess that's a good thing! All I have to do is plug it in before and after and I'm recharging? The PO also installed a new battery, new charger, new control panel, new wiring and outlets. Sounds like he did some good things.

[Lfoxmont]

Byron..........can I overcharge my battery by keeping my camper plugged to my household outlet?

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Lfoxmont

Byron..........can I overcharge my battery by keeping my camper plugged to my household outlet?

Not Byron, but the answer is yes - if you have an older "dumb" charger. If you post the brand and model number of the charger, we can tell you if it is a smart charger that will not damage the battery by overcharging.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Lfoxmont

Byron..........can I overcharge my battery by keeping my camper plugged to my household outlet?

It depends entirely on the converter/charger installed in your trailer. Mine shuts off when the battery gets to 12.2 volts, according to the manufacturer, this causes an under charge situation. The newer units should stop charging when about 13.8 volts to 13.9 volts. A volt meter will give you a pretty good indication.

You could also look at the converter/charger and determine the manufacturer and model number, look it up on the internet or call the manufacturer.

[mary and bob]

If there is a 12 volt outlet, cigarette lighter type thing, there are cheap battery condition meters you can get to plug in. I got one from Amazon, it came with some other stuff I ordered, not sure how accurate it is. I have a much more expensive battery tester that the average person would not have, but one of these cheap things would give you an idea of battery voltage.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

It depends entirely on the converter/charger installed in your trailer

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Mine shuts off when the battery gets to 12.2 volts, according to the manufacturer, this causes an under charge situation. The newer units should stop charging when about 13.8 volts to 13.9 volts.

... and some never shut off, risking over-charging.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

Not Byron, but the anser is yes - if you have an older "dumb" charger. If you post the brand and model number of the charger, we can tell you if it is a smart charger that will not damage the battery by overcharging.

Not necessarily true. Many older chargers use an analog comparator circuit to switch the charger to trickle charge. Newer chargers use an A/D converter to a microcontroller to achieve the same end. Raz

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by P. Raz

Not necessarily true. Many older chargers use an analog comparator circuit to switch the charger to trickle charge. Newer chargers use an A/D converter to a microcontroller to achieve the same end. Raz

Such a converter would not be a 'dumb" charger, then would it? It would have a controlled output.

I'd like to see the OP post the band and model number, then we would know what the actual risk is of leaving it plugged in for long periods.

[Brian B-P]

I guess we could distinguish between "smart" (having some intelligent behaviour) and a switching power supply managed by a microprocesser (one way to build a "smart" charger)... or just find out what Linda has and answer her question.

Linda: your turn...

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

Such a converter would not be a 'dumb" charger, then would it? It would have a controlled output.

In the field "smart" generally refers to a micro-controller software controlled circuit so yes an analog circuit is considered dumb. There are two solutions to most electrical designs, analog vs digital. Cost usually determines the approach used. Designing a charger without a switching point would be like designing a car with out brakes. Even the old stuff had a shut off. Raz

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Lfoxmont

Byron..........can I overcharge my battery by keeping my camper plugged to my household outlet?

Originally Posted by P. Raz

In the field "smart" generally refers to a micro-controller software controlled circuit so yes an analog circuit is considered dumb. There are two solutions to most electrical designs, analog vs digital. Cost usually determines the approach used. Designing a charger without a switching point would be like designing a car with out brakes. Even the old stuff had a shut off. Raz

So the question was

can I overcharge my battery by keeping my camper plugged to my household outlet?

Yes or no? I say maybe depending on the converter, which neither of us has identified.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

So the question was Yes or no? I say maybe depending on the converter, which neither of us has identified.

That's not what you said.



........can I overcharge my battery by keeping my camper plugged to my household outlet?


........ the answer is yes - if you have an older "dumb" charger.


Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by P. Raz

That's not what you said.



........can I overcharge my battery by keeping my camper plugged to my household outlet?


........ the answer is yes - if you have an older "dumb" charger.


Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.

Are you accusing me of providing misinformation?


Neither of us knows what model of converter the OP has. Some converters, especially older ones, will cook a battery, so I stand by my answer that, yes, a "dumb" charger can damage a battery if left plugged in for long periods.

[Lfoxmont]

Ummmm.......what does it look like and where would I find it? Would it be by the battery?

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Lfoxmont

Ummmm.......what does it look like and where would I find it? Would it be by the battery?

Hi Linda. No, your converter will be located somewhere inside your trailer. Look in a storage area where the power cable enters.

All batteries require maintenance. As they can produce explosive hydrogen gas and contain acid they should be treated with respect. Monitoring the water (electrolyte) level of the battery and keeping it charged are the two most important things to do. If this is new to you then I would suggest you find someone knowledgeable to show you how to do it or have a qualified technician do it for you. Having to frequently add water(distilled), say more than once or twice a year, could indicate a charger issue. Some leave their chargers plugged in all the time, others don't. If working properly, plugged in is fine. A while back a member discovered their "smart" charger had malfunctioned and ruined the battery. A rare event but I does happen so if you leave it plugged in keep an eye on it. Good luck, Raz

[Brian B-P]

Linda, did the trailer come with a set of manuals? Usually, there is a very basic one for the trailer, but also a stack of the installation and operation manuals that come with each appliance and major piece of equipment. My Boler was 26 years old when I bought it, and it still had that stack of manuals. If there is one for a "power converter", that should tell you what it is and how it works.

Originally Posted by P. Raz

Designing a charger without a switching point would be like designing a car with out brakes.

I think it would be more like designing a car without cruise control: the operator is required to monitor and respond to the speed [voltage]... and many of us seem to be old enough to remember when cruise was a fancy option.

Originally Posted by P. Raz

Even the old stuff had a shut off.

While it is possible for a charger to just shut off at a set voltage - that's how traditional car battery chargers work - that could be annoying for RV use. My Boler's obsolete converter disconnects the battery when the converter gets AC power, so although the battery never gets charged it also never gets overcharged, and the lights and other stuff in the trailer are supplied with a constant 12.4 volts. I believe that the optional charger switches a connection to the battery on and off as required to charge but not overcharge it.

My (not moulded) 2002-vintage fifth-wheel trailer came with a Parallax 7445, which appears to be dumb, by any definition. The truly mediocre 7400 Series Converter/Battery Charger Owners Manual suggests (at least in my reading) that it is simply a constant 13.6 volt power supply which will wander up to 0.2V above that if there is no current flowing. That's high enough to charge a battery (although perhaps not quickly) and we hope low enough to not cook it too badly by overcharging... and higher than normal dumb always-on always-connected "float" chargers. It never shuts off or changes voltage.

I have since replaced this thing with a Progressive Dynamics Intelli-Power PD9260C, just like the one that came in my motorhome. The Intelli-Power series are not "dumb", and are designed in the currently typical fashion for "smart" devices. Although my Boler's converter is built into the same metal cabinet as circuit breakers, both the Parallax and the PD are separate devices, tucked away in a storage compartment; at least the PD is also available integrated with the distribution (circuit breaker and fuse) panel... a trailer of any vintage could have either style.


We could explain how to check battery and branch circuit voltages under various conditions to deduce the converter's operating design... but I'm guessing most people are not interested in doing that.