Compact Jr., Cliff's Rebuild

[Cliff]

After tagging on to other Compact Jr. threads, ie. Larry's, Ricks's, I decided to start my own. I will surely run into some issues that will need your experience, and possible solutions. At this point the CJ is up on blocks, and frame detached. I added extra cross members to the frame similar to Larry's.

Now my current problem... The front tongue is angled, and bent upward. I am not sure if the hack job the previous owner is holding it taunt at that angle. I am not an experienced iron worker, so I need suggestions from experienced welders. I want to cut all the extra braces off down the original level frame.







Sorry, pics are small.

I am not sure if grinding the welds, and then use a 3" cut off wheel would do any good. Should I continue to break the beads of the weld to remove the top layers, or should I hack the front off an add new lengths of C channel. I am concerned that most of the tongue weight will be at the seam of the new piece. I will truss the bottom of the frame similar to what Larry did on his frame.

What to do?

[Cliff]

Cliff, I'm not an experienced welder, but I do have one and use it on stuff when I need to. I do have a friend who is a great welder and in the Steam Fitters Union . I haven't done a frame up restoration on anything, but if I did and got down to the frame and it looked pretty bad. I would consider building a new one made from galvanized steel , if it wasn't too much money. You may save a lot of time working on that old steel. You wouldn't have to worry about that frame ever again. Just a foolish thought. Tim

Tom,
You make a good suggestion, and it may very well come to that, but I really did not want to go there. If I build a new frame, I would replace the axle, add a braking system etc... I did not expect the bent frame, until I got the body off.

The added hack job, on top of the original frame makes the tongue sit to high, and probably caused the frame to bend like that.

[Cliff]

Wanted: Any Compact Jr. owners have an original canvas top for the pop up that I can borrow. I would like to use it as a pattern to make a new one.

[Tim Wood]

Cliff, Its a tuff call either way you deal with it, I'm not standing in front of the old frame to see what you are seeing. But I'm sure some others may have a good idea to help you out. If your like me you want to get away without breaking the bank, so maybe you can just replace some of the real bad pieces. It may not hurt to have a welding guy near you to stop by and take a look. I brought up the galvanized steel because that's what I was going to do when I thought about building a teardrop. Tim

[james kent]

Cliff
How does the material fasten into the trailer? Can you hang the new material in place at the top and then adjust the lower hem and then finally sew it together.

[james kent]

BTW, that's Rick's trailer. I took a couple of pictures at the Niagara Wine Tour back in September.

[Rick Brown]

[b]Wanted: Any Compact Jr. owners have an original canvas top for the pop up that I can borrow. I would like to use it as a pattern to make a new one.

Cliff
Would you like me to give you directions on how to make a top?

[Tom Trostel]

Cliff,
I'm no welder so I can't help with your questions about your frame problems. Mine was altered by an unknown previous owner and the method seems to be holding up very well. There is a piece of C channel welded under the original frame rail from just in front of the axle forward to the tongue. The tongue has been altered to raise the hitch coupler.

http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm41/to...sonphotos18.jpg

The vinyl collar is attached with 5 bolts through it per side and 3 in front and rear (16 total). These pass through the fiberglass flange of the lower roof. The upper, moveable roof has the same number of nuts and bolts. A bead of chalk between the vinyl and fiberglass prevents any gaps from leaking air.

[Cliff]

Cliff
Would you like me to give you directions on how to make a top?

Rick,
I myself will probably not sew it, but will try to get suitable materials, and take it to a referred seamstress. She makes various items for campers/boaters. Instructions would be nice to have, if you already have it typed out.

Thanks,

[Cliff]

Cliff,
I'm no welder so I can't help with your questions about your frame problems. Mine was altered by an unknown previous owner and the method seems to be holding up very well. There is a piece of C channel welded under the original frame rail from just in front of the axle forward to the tongue. The tongue has been altered to raise the hitch coupler. snip....

Is raising the hitch height is a necessary evil? ha ha. I am not sure why the previous owner attempted the same process of raising the hitch, but that is how it ended up.

[Tom Trostel]

My guess is that he was towing with a bumper hitch on a pickup truck...... this is Texas.

[Larry&Carrie]

After tagging on to other Compact Jr. threads, ie. Larry's, Ricks's, I decided to start my own. I will surely run into some issues that will need your experience, and possible solutions. At this point the CJ is up on blocks, and frame detached. I added extra cross members to the frame similar to Larry's.

Now my current problem... The front tongue is angled, and bent upward. I am not sure if the hack job the previous owner is holding it taunt at that angle. I am not an experienced iron worker, so I need suggestions from experienced welders. I want to cut all the extra braces off down the original level frame.



I am not sure if grinding the welds, and then use a 3" cut off wheel would do any good. Should I continue to break the beads of the weld to remove the top layers, or should I hack the front off an add new lengths of C channel. I am concerned that most of the tongue weight will be at the seam of the new piece. I will truss the bottom of the frame similar to what Larry did on his frame.

What to do?

Cliff---- why not scarf all that junk that the previous owner put on there off? Betcha then the original frame/tonque will flex back (might take a little weight, tho). Then wait until you have the rest of the frame/axle/springs the way you want them, calculate what tonque height you desire and refab the coupler area-- add the trusses last. Larry

[Cliff]

Cliff---- why not scarf all that junk that the previous owner put on there off? Betcha then the original frame/tonque will flex back (might take a little weight, tho). Then wait until you have the rest of the frame/axle/springs the way you want them, calculate what tonque height you desire and refab the coupler area-- add the trusses last. Larry

Larry,
Yes, "scarfing" is what I was attempting to do, but it will be like performing surgery on the weld beads. I was thinking the same thing, the flex in the original frame may be partially caused from all that extra junk on top. I started grinding, and using the abrasive disc cutter, then stopped to post here for comments.

Is the truss a solid or tubing underneath?

[Larry&Carrie]

Larry,
Yes, "scarfing" is what I was attempting to do, but it will be like performing surgery on the weld beads. I was thinking the same thing, the flex in the original frame may be partially caused from all that extra junk on top. I started grinding, and using the abrasive disc cutter, then stopped to post here for comments.

Is the truss a solid or tubing underneath?

Cut above the weld, leaving the bead on the original frame, then grind the rest off...
The truss is flat strap the same width as the frame w/short pieces (1") of square tubing for spacers. A shot of both the Scamp and the Compact. Larry

[Phill Roehrs]

RE: Canvas Top

Cliff, Rick

I took the old top to a boat canvas shop, and had them copy it. It didn't work, the old piece was stretched out in some areas, shrunk up in others, and the new piece just didn't fit. Fortunately, the shop used the wrong fabric, and was agreeable to re-do the job at a much reduced rate. Total cost was about $400, including the re-do ($100) - we've got a lot of boat canvas shops here, I shopped until I found a good price.

On the re-do, I abandoned the old pattern and fastening scheme, and came up with one that was "simplier". It actually worked pretty well, and made the task of measuring the new top, and relating the measurements to the boat shop easier. But it took the better part of a day to install.

I decided to run the top of the new boot (the inside mount) "level" around the top, in lieu of the original custom fit that was a constant distance from the bottom edge of the fiberglass hood. I scribed a level line around the inside of the top, and carefully measured the corner to corner distances for all four sides.

On the bottom (the outside mount), I did a similar thing, measuring down a fixed distance (so the fabricated canvas had parallel top and bottom plains), and measured the corner to corner distances again. I drew it up, and the boat shop had no trouble understanding it and producing a good fit. I had the flexibility to raise or lower the top edge to make it fit.

I had the boat shop use a heavy rubberized canvas (their mistake on the first try was using a lower grade, thinner, fabric than was clearly stated, and quoted, on the work order). I also had them install four zippered, screened windows. I've read other Compact posts about the windows, some saying that they felt they weren't necessary - obviously I disagee. The view through the windows is at eye level from the inside makes the camper seem less small, and camping in this part of the east coast in the summer requires mucho ventilation.

To mount the new canvas, I cut an interior "frame" for the top of 1 by 3/4 oak, that fit corner to corner as close as I could get it. I left the four pieces of the frame unconnected, and stapled the canvas (stainless steel staples) to the outside of the frame pieces, forming a flexible 'hoop skirt' type of top edge. I secured the top 'hoop' to the fiberglass by screwing through the fiberglass from the outside, into the frame pieces.





(The 'view' through the clear plastic windows is blocked in these pics by my winter cover)

This left the bottom edge of the canvas hanging, outside of the raised lip on the lower part of the roof. In between the four 'woodies' for the lift hinges I stapled more of the 1 by 3/4 to the bottom edge of the canvas, pulled them down tight, and secured them with screws through the fiberglass lip from the inside. I did the same for the front and back faces. Then, one by one, I replaced the four woodies that the hinges secure to, pulling the canvas down tight, and letting the screws for the hinges hold the fabric in place.





I left out several non-related steps that I did in the process, like body work and paint, the fact that I had the fiberglass top off when I made the measurements, etc.

The end product is a much tighter 'boot' than the way the fabric was originally attached. Very watertight, wind proof. This winter I plan to replace all of the lower 'woodies', to form a continuous 'hoop' like on the top, of 1 by 3 wood - to make it look better and to provide some support for the lower roof that I lost when I deleted the kitchen surround and the bulkhead that had held up that side.

While I'm obviously biased that my solution has merits, the real message I'd share is that the old top was too complicated to reproduce with accuracy - at least my old worn-out one was. I also just didn't like the way it was hung, single points spaced as much as 24 inches apart seemed like a good blow would push cold air and water in.

[Tim Wood]

Phil, That's a great looking job on the boot, I like the use of the oak strips.

[Rick Brown]

Phil, your top looks great. This is how I made my top.

1. Mark each the corner of the to top and the corner of the raised section on the trailer. These were my starting and finishing points for measurements
2. I then drew a straight line around the inside of the pop up and on the bottom edge of the raised lip on the trailer. This line is were I wanted the top to reach.
3. I then measured the distance between the pop up line and the bottom line on the lip. This is done on both sides and the front and back
4. My wife and I bought a sewing machine!!!!!!! This was scary because we didn't have that much experience in sewing things but I knew we had to either make or have someone make the top, curtains and cushions covers, which would have been big bucks. We saved about $800.00 doing it ourself. Its not any more difficult then working with wood except your saw is replaced with a pair of scissors and your nails are thread.
5. Taking the measurements, I made the long panels approx 1' longer then my pop up measurement and 1" wider then my measurement from the pop up top, to the trailer (width). This will give you a 1/2" seam on top and bottom. I drew a straight edge 1/2" down on each long side of the panel. Using seam taps I folded over and ironed the panel on my straight edge. This gave my wife a nice seam to sew on. We also ironed on Velcro because I wanted to remove the top for cleaning. Using the Velcro on the top did not work because glue on the Velcro would not hold on the top but did work on the bottom.
6. I made each end panels the same way.
7. If you want windows mark the center of each panel and draw out your window and cut out the window, remember to mark the window edges 1/2" smaller then your window. This edge you will fold over for your seam around the window, then I placed Velcro around the edge and sewed the edge. You will only need Velcro around the top and sides of the window.
8. The door for the window is made 1" larger then the window. This will give you a 1/2" seam to fold over and 1/2" to over lap the window. Velcro is only needed on the top and sides, the bottom will be sewn on the bottom edge of the window. To open the window all you have to do is pull the cover open.
9. Do the same with the other panels.
10. I then hung the panels from the top and using the marks I put in the corners, marked each panel and added 1" for the seam. This gives you the length and angle for each panel. To connect the panels I used Velcro so I could remove one or all the panels easily or you could sew them together

I like the way Phil hung the top, it gives that finished look but I would consider using Velcro along the bottom. I found that my top was so tight fitting that to lower the top I had to loosen the bottom of the back to put it down. I would also consider using aluminum for around the bottom. Its strong light and won't rot.

Now that I confused everybody I will stop

[Steve Hilby]

Now that I confused everybody I will stop.

I'm not confused; that seemed very clear to me. On my sister's Compact Jr, the top boot is a bit scruffy-looking, especially the windows, so I suppose sooner or later she's going to have to bite the bullet and make/buy a new one.

One thing about hers: There's a long bungee cord all around the top, about halfway up. When you're lowering the roof it pulls the top inward, kind of automatically stowing it. I imagine that without it, keeping the top tucked out of the way during the lowering process would be a lot harder. You can see it in this picture:

[JenPB]

I'm glad you pointed out the bungee cord, Steve! My dad's newfangled pop-up camper has double-wall construction on the canvas, so there are two bungees attached to d-rings on the INTERIOR. This works great, but if it were single-wall construction like our Jr. tops, I figure the D-rings (or whatever I use to attach the cord) would just be leakage spots. I think I can get that cording at my local craft shop or hardware store. Will check it in the a.m. 'cause it IS a pain to get it all tucked in with one not-QUITE-tall-enough adult doing the teardown.

[Rick Brown]

Steve, Thanks for the picture. It IS A PAIN to lower the top and make sure the sides are tucked in. I think I could incorporate the bung cord inside the top. Thanks for the tip
Rick