Experimenting with LED options - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-15-2008, 03:56 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 1,555
Registry
SInce we plan on doing a fair bit of of boondocking and will be depending on our 50 watt solar panel for much of our electric power, I've been converting our trailer's lights to low-energy LEDs. Recently I have been trying out various LED light options for converting the track-light lights I bought at Home Depot into replacements for the factory reading lights that the Scamp comes with. The plan is to have four reading lights, one in each corner over the dinette and one in each forward corner of the 5er's loft. (I've already converted a fifth fixture into a sconce-type thingie for the loft, but it's not LED-lit yet.) I also wanted to find LED lights that would convert our porch and standard incandescent-bulb 12v interior lights into LED-lit versions.


Click image for larger version

Name:	08Apr01_Pic_of_Closet_from_Loft_640x480.jpg
Views:	241
Size:	61.5 KB
ID:	13845
One of the track lights I've already converted into a "sconce" with an incandescent bulb. Eventually it'll be LED-lit, too.

Here's what I found:

For converting the Porch light and Bargman 12v interior lights I hit it lucky on the first purchase. V-LEDS, an eBay merchant, has a $20, 48-LED "Warm White 48 M-SMT" flat panel light that puts out one heck of a lot of light, as much or more than the 1156 auto light bulbs that regularly fit in the fixtures do, and dims only minimally when battery voltage drops below 12 volts. Power consumption is 0.15 amps at 13.5v (2 watts) and 0.06 amps at 11.5v (0.7 watts). (Standard 1156 bulbs suck down 1.33 amps or 18 watts.)



Name:   VLEDS_48_LED_warm_white_SMT_panel.jpg
Views: 211
Size:  5.8 KB
The "warm" light these LED panels put out is cooler in color than the IKEA puck lights I bought last fall, but don't have that blue color cast so many other "white" LED bulbs have. As a reference point, the color temperature looks to be somewhere between the color cast of a "cool white" and "warm white" fluorescent bulb. The light come with adapters that allow you to use the flat panels in a variety of different light fixtures without re-wiring them, though you do have to find a way to mount the panels in the fixture.

I was less lucky in finding bulbs that would work in our reading lights. I tried several options that I won't mention before stumbling on something that works, but did find five LED options that are very much worth mentioning, all from eBay merchant LEDWholesalers.



Name:   LEDWholesalers_6_LED_SMT_warm_white_MR11.jpg
Views: 212
Size:  3.4 KB
. This light puts out a warmer but dimmer light than the 48 LED light panels from VLEDs, about the same color as my IKEA puck lights, but the light intensity is a bit less than light than a 1156 incandescent bulb. On the upside, the light from this LED bulb is more focused than the incandescent bulb, so I think it's a fairly even trade-off for a reading light. Like the 48 LED panel, this light doesn't dim a whole lot as voltage drops off, and consumes 0.15 amps at 13.5 volts (2 watts) and 0.08 watts at 11.5 volts (0.9 watts).



Name:   LEDWholesalers_6_LED_warm_white_SMT.jpg
Views: 209
Size:  2.9 KB
that comes in this light separately, without the MR11 housing, for $12. You could turn them into tiny under-cabinet "puck" lights if you wanted to. If you want more light, LEDWholesalers also sells a larger, MR16 9-LED version of the same light with "white" (not warm white) LEDS that puts out twice again as much light (plain "white" LEDs put out more light than the "warm" LEDs do).



Name:   LEDWholesalers_24_LED_warm_white_MR11.jpg
Views: 209
Size:  3.5 KB
[attachment=17005:LEDWhole...ite_MR16.
jpg]The other thing LEDWholesalers sells is a $5 24 LED MR11 and a $9 32 LED MR16 warm-white LED lights that use traditional LEDs that are somewhat bulb-shaped. I tried their 24 LED MR11 bulb and found it put out a very focused, really warm (almost yellow-colored) light that was bright enough to read by when the battery was fully charged at 13.5 volts. The problem I ran into with this light was the light level dropped off dramatically as the battery voltage declined; at 11.5 volts it wasn't anywhere near enough light for comfortable reading.

I suspect the 32 LED version of this same bulb would probably work pretty well. I wanted a more compact bulb for my application, but could easily see how using these more "yellow" colored bulbs as reading lights would create a really comfortable light balance in the trailer when combined with the cooler-colored LED light that come off my IKEA puck lights and the 48 LED panels from VLEDs.
Attached Images
 
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 06:49 PM   #2
Moderator
 
Frederick L. Simson's Avatar
 
Trailer: Fiber Stream 1978 / Honda Odyssey LX 2003
Posts: 8,222
Registry
Send a message via AIM to Frederick L. Simson
Talking

I presently use 36 LED flat panel units with bases that connect to 1156 and 1157 bases in my fixtures. I may be looking to replace them with your 48's.
__________________
Frederick - The Scaleman
Frederick L. Simson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 07:23 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Joe Z's Avatar
 
Trailer: 16 ft Casita Spirit Deluxe
Posts: 1,043
Peter.....
That is one gigantic wealth of information......thanks for taking the time to post it
Joe
__________________
Joe and Linda
2013 Casita SD
Dodge Ram 4x4
Joe Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 08:58 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
Quote:
Here's what I found:

For converting the Porch light and Bargman 12v interior lights I hit it lucky on the first purchase. V-LEDS, an eBay merchant, has a $20, 48-LED "Warm White 48 M-SMT" flat panel light that puts out one heck of a lot of light, as much or more than the 1156 auto light bulbs that regularly fit in the fixtures do, and dims only minimally when battery voltage drops below 12 volts. Power consumption is 0.15 amps at 13.5v (2 watts) and 0.06 amps at 11.5v (0.7 watts). (Standard 1156 bulbs suck down 1.33 amps or 18 watts.)
Quote:
I presently use 36 LED flat panel units with bases that connect to 1156 and 1157 bases in my fixtures.
Thank You Peter and Frederick!

That might work for my outside porch light. Now I'm wondering what to use on the inside lights pictured below.


Click image for larger version

Name:	smLight.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	26.1 KB
ID:	13854


I work under bright lights most of the day and am bothered by glaring lights away from work. I see that Autolumination previously recommended by others here has both the 36 and 48 LED versions in both warm white and cool white.

I hate glare, so which if any of these would be best for the outside porch light (maximum light effectiveness preferred) and the inside cabinet ends (low level soft preferred)? I'd like to get them before the end of the month.

Thank you,

Roy
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2008, 10:46 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Quote:
I hate glare, so which if any of these would be best for the outside porch light (maximum light effectiveness preferred) and the inside cabinet ends (low level soft preferred)? I'd like to get them before the end of the month.
I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "glare" here, whether you're talking about harsh fluorescent white light or light that reflects off a white fiberglass surface or a "glaring" bright single point source for lighting. If it's light color you're uncomfortable with, the 48 LED panels may not be your best answer, as they really are closer in color to fluorescent "cool white" than they are "warm white."

Here's what I'd suggest: Try buying one or two of the "warm white" 48 LED panels I mentioned via eBay and see how you like it inside your trailer. If you like it, you can buy more, if not, it/they'll work fine as a trailer porch light.

LED lighting is one area where our options are only going to get better. The LED lights they sell today are enormously improved over what I could get last year, and given that incandescent light bulbs are being banned in a few years, that trend will continue in the years to come. Fifteen years from now I suspect I'll be able to replace all our house lights with LED (or some other technology) lighting that I can run from the power collected by two to four 50w solar panels. (Notice I'm specifying our lights, not all the other electrical goodies in the house: dish & clothes washers, toasters, et al. My big hope for solar is the technology will advance to the point where I can do all of that on the juice collected by an affordable & cost efficient roof-mounted solar panel array.)

Back to my point, right now the "warm" white LEDs aren't generally the same color and intensity we've come to expect from our incandescent bulbs, but things are moving in the right direction. If what's available this year doesn't do the job, just hang on for a year or two, and I bet something new will come along. Two years from now I'll probably write another roundup article just like the one at the top of this topic telling everyone about the LED lights I've chosen for our smaller Surfside trailer.
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2008, 05:26 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Steve L.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: Casita Spirit Deluxe 2003 16 ft
Posts: 1,899
Registry
I've had mixed success with some of the LED lights what with individual LEDs burning out. The last set I bought from SuperBrightLEDS were the 1156-PCB-WHP9 units which have been much more tolerant of the over 13+ volts you get while the converter is charging the battery. (I believe the others burned out because the charger over "volted" them.) They're a couple years old now and still working fine.

For my eyes, the cool whites are easier to read by but I expect they'd be considered more glaring.
__________________
Without adult supervision...
Quando omni flunkus, moritati.
Also,
I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
Steve L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2008, 04:04 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Quote:
I've had mixed success with some of the LED lights what with individual LEDs burning out. The last set I bought from SuperBrightLEDS were the 1156-PCB-WHP9 units which have been much more tolerant of the over 13+ volts you get while the converter is charging the battery. (I believe the others burned out because the charger over "volted" them.)
LEDs are very susceptible to burning out when the voltage they get exceeds their maximum specification. This is because their resistance to current flow drops as the voltage goes up. Current loading through a LED operates as an exponential function of voltage, when the volts sent through the LED are within spec almost all the energy consumed goes into creating visible light; exceed the maximum voltage of the LED and the excess energy produces only heat, not visible light. It doesn't take much before the LED overheats and burns out.

To protect my precious (and expensive) LEDs I've installed voltage regulator circuits into all my LED lighting circuits. They're cheap (under $3 each at Radio Shack) and make sure the voltage going to the LEDs don't exceed 12v.
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2008, 05:02 PM   #8
Member
 
Paula Bindrich's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1987 13 ft Casita
Posts: 87
Cool.
This is the kind of detailed info I need.

Thanks to all you engineers that need to thoroughly check things out!!

Paula
Paula Bindrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2008, 09:53 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
Quote:
To protect my precious (and expensive) LEDs I've installed voltage regulator circuits into all my LED lighting circuits. They're cheap (under $3 each at Radio Shack) and make sure the voltage going to the LEDs don't exceed 12v.
I seem to recall you posting the details on this before, could you repeat how to do the voltage regulation in this thread for continuity, or possibly provide a link back to your original post?
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2008, 01:48 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Quote:
I seem to recall you posting the details on this before, could you repeat how to do the voltage regulation in this thread for continuity, or possibly provide a link back to your original post?
Your wish is my command (sort of):

I have two schematics, each use a "7812" voltage regulator ($1.60 or so at Radio Shack):



Name:   VoltRegulator.gif
Views: 286
Size:  1.8 KB
This circuit limits the voltage to the LEDs to 12v or less (about 1/2v lower than the battery charge). Its one disadvantage is, if you wire your battery backwards, the voltage regulator will burn out.



Name:   VoltRegulatorWithDiode.gif
Views: 239
Size:  1.9 KB
This circuit adds a switching diode into the circuit that prevents the voltage regulator from burning out. Its downside is the diode drops the voltage even further.

--Peter
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2008, 05:39 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Steve L.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: Casita Spirit Deluxe 2003 16 ft
Posts: 1,899
Registry
Roll your mouse over one of the warning boxes on one of the earlier pages on the SuperBright LED pages and you get the information that the WHP lights have driver circuits of some sort built into the base of the connector. These units (the WHP ones) have a much wider tolerance for voltages (8-30 VDC I believe). I expect that they're doing something along what Peter describes only you're paying them to do it.
__________________
Without adult supervision...
Quando omni flunkus, moritati.
Also,
I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
Steve L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 12:21 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Just installed the 48 LED panels in my trailer. I used strips of glass tape just a bit wider than the back of the LED board and framed that with glass tape just covering all four front edges of the board and sticking to the tape overlapping the back and used that to tape the board into the fixture. The wires, as you can see fold over the front of the board and plug into the bulb converter socket that came with the LED panel.

It turns out that the light is ever so slightly warmer in color than my IKEA puck lights and about the same intensity as the incandescent bulb it replaced.


Click image for larger version

Name:	VLEDS_48_LED_warm_white_SMT_panel_2.JPG
Views:	179
Size:	40.8 KB
ID:	14014
Taped in place and turned on.
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 12:38 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
JenPB's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1972 Compact Jr
Posts: 340
Registry
Thumbs up

Wow...this is great info! It appears as easy as plugging the LED panel in to the supplied adapter, and plugging THAT into the existing bulb plug. Is that correct? Where did you put the voltage regulator? Is it hidden near the light, or did you hide it in a cabinet somewhere along the line?

Jen in Cali
nOObie FT owner!
jenpb.blogspot.com
__________________
Jen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Nowhere to be and all day to get there." - The Bills
JenPB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 09:59 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
paulw's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17 ft
Posts: 418
Registry
[quote]Just installed the 48 LED panels in my trailer. I used strips of glass tape just a bit wider than the back of the LED board and framed that with glass tape just covering all four front edges of the board and sticking to the tape overlapping the back and used that to tape the board into the fixture. The wires, as you can see fold over the front of the board and plug into the bulb converter socket that came with the LED panel.

It turns out that the light is ever so slightly warmer in color than my IKEA puck lights and about the same intensity as the incandescent bulb it replaced.


Attachment 14014


Very cool Peter!
I'd like to learn more about LED lighting.
Have you been recruited to give a pitch at the Oregon Gathering next month?
__________________
Paul & Norma
2005 Hunter Fat Shadow, 1995 Scamp 16, 2009 Escape 17B, 2013 Escape 21
2022 Coachmen Nova 20C
paulw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 12:22 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Quote:
Wow...this is great info! It appears as easy as plugging the LED panel in to the supplied adapter, and plugging THAT into the existing bulb plug. Is that correct? Where did you put the voltage regulator? Is it hidden near the light, or did you hide it in a cabinet somewhere along the line?
I emailed the company owner about voltage regulation, and he said his products are designed to handle automotive charging voltages. I'm hoping this means they're built to withstand the up to 17 volts many car batteries charge at. The MR11 bulbs I listed earlier, on the other hand, come with a warning that they're only rated to 14 volts max, so I'll be installing voltage regulators with them.

Quote:
Have you been recruited to give a pitch at the Oregon Gathering next month?
No . . . I'm already doing a session on easy-to-make cabinet doors, but I'll attend any LED and solar panel discussions that don't conflict!
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 02:14 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
Quote:
I emailed the company owner about voltage regulation, and he said his products are designed to handle automotive charging voltages.
Which company? V-LED ? You mentioned 3 companies in the start of the thread.
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 10:03 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Quote:
Which company? V-LED ? You mentioned 3 companies in the start of the thread.
VLeds. :-)

It's worth mentioning that some older trailers have converters that operate at much higher voltages, so if you have an old trailer (or an old converter) it might be worth checking to see what voltage your converter system runs at when the battery is both topped off and running low.
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 10:49 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Chris B's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2003 Casita Liberty Deluxe
Posts: 118
Peter - I noticed that the ends of the LEDs have little plastic "plugs" on them. Is there some type of adapter that you use to plug it into the Bargman fixture?

Thanks,
Chris B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 11:19 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Quote:
Peter - I noticed that the ends of the LEDs have little plastic "plugs" on them. Is there some type of adapter that you use to plug it into the Bargman fixture?
Yep, that's a plug. The 48 LED panels I got from VLEDS came with a little baggie with four different bulb adapters, two "torpedo" shaped ones, a bayonet adapter that works in my Bargman fixtures, and a little card edge adapter that looks similar to the bulbs in my Ford's dashboard.
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2008, 10:48 AM   #20
Junior Member
 
Trailer: Ducky
Posts: 3
Here is a site with some good ideas for wireing LED lights. It gets a bit technical and some of the suggestions require some electronics knowledge to implement but generaly reading through will improve your knowledge of the electrical circuit for LED's


http://www.dutchforce.com/~eforum/index.ph...=13420&st=0
nigel57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
led lights, lighting


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (0 members and 10 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Experimenting with different materials for interior walls kevin61 Modifications, Alterations and Updates 26 06-29-2010 08:47 PM
Tow vehicle options Gerry W Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 22 11-10-2006 09:43 AM
New furnace options? Kurt in BC Modifications, Alterations and Updates 10 10-29-2006 11:37 PM
hot water: options ?? Legacy Posts General Chat 5 07-20-2003 08:55 AM
Experimenting with LED options peterh Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 0 01-01-1970 12:00 AM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.