Extended frame for scooter

[HikeSticks]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

I'm interested in your axle because I've noticed that if I carry a bike on the outside hooks on the rack in the picture below, the trailer tries to sway regardless of proper tongue weight ratio. My husband thinks it's because the bike is too far behind the axle, but I've long wondered if the torsion axle might be inferior to leaf springs in the distribution department.

Your success makes me wonder even more!

Francesca

Hi again Francesca,
My scooter is mounted at least as far back as your bike and certainly it's heavier. I have no experience with the torsion axle so I can't say if that's the problem. I have a trunk mounted bike rack I use when I take my mountain bike and it works great.
Barrie

[Randy Bishop]

Originally Posted by Barrie Bochoff

Hi Randy,
No, the axle is from another travel trailer and not a torsion axle combination. What looks like a body crack in the photo is actually debris. I just returned from a camping trip.
Barrie

The crack I was refurring to was the one between the body and frame right in front of the leaf spring shackle connection.......

[HikeSticks]

Originally Posted by Randy Bishop

The crack I was refurring to was the one between the body and frame right in front of the leaf spring shackle connection.......

Hi Randy,
Sorry, I thought you were referring to something broken (cracked) but you are just referring to the space between the body and the frame. I can't imagine the frame has been replaced. Since this is an earlier version than yours perhaps the fabrication was changed with later productions. Are the frame rails on yours single pieces with 'S' curves over the axle or separate sections of square tubing welded over the axle as another member mentioned?
Barrie

[Randy Bishop]

Originally Posted by Barrie Bochoff

Hi Randy,
Sorry, I thought you were referring to something broken (cracked) but you are just referring to the space between the body and the frame. I can't imagine the frame has been replaced. Since this is an earlier version than yours perhaps the fabrication was changed with later productions. Are the frame rails on yours single pieces with 'S' curves over the axle or separate sections of square tubing welded over the axle as another member mentioned?
Barrie

Mine has the seprate sections of square tubing........All of them do.... I've never seen one that looked like yours I guess that was the way the early ones were done...really nothing wrong with it I just thought it looked odd at first because I hadn't seen one that way before....

[HikeSticks]

Originally Posted by Randy Bishop

Mine has the seprate sections of square tubing........All of them do.... I've never seen one that looked like yours I guess that was the way the early ones were done...really nothing wrong with it I just thought it looked odd at first because I hadn't seen one that way before....

Hmmm. Interesting. I'm happy I have single piece frame rails. I'm sure my set up is stronger than a two piece welded unit and better suited for the frame extension I have. The gap you noticed between the body and frame near the 'hump' hasn't caused a problem and don't expect it will.
Barrie

[Jeff Johannsen]

Originally Posted by Barrie Bochoff

Hi Randy,
I can't imagine the frame has been replaced. Since this is an earlier version than yours perhaps the fabrication was changed with later productions.....
Barrie

If you are curious about the frame, you might call Tom Young at the new Trillium company in California. He was the manager at the Trillium plant back in the '70s. He may be able to shed some light on this very interesting set-up

[Randy Bishop]

Wonder what the frame on others the same year as yours look like..If anyone has a 1300 the same year as yours can ring in and shed some light on the subject that would be great....Let's hear it guys I know someone out there has one the same year....

[Francesca Knowles]

This is a very interesting conversation!
Hey, Randy and Barrie-
How about each of you posting side-view pictures of your 1300's?
Barrie's looks taller from what I can see in the rack-picture, but it'd be nice to see the trailer sideview-straight-on, especially with another 1300 to compare it to...
Even if Randy's IS newer!

Francesca

[Kevin Poll]

This is getting really interesting.
I am going to add a picture of the frame over the axle to compare to the picture that Barrie posted. What I think is more interesting than the fact that our original frames are set up completely different is that Barrie's trill has a completely different FG lower section than my Trill! His underside roughly follows the slope of the frame where it is offset at the axle and mine finishes square for the two parts of the frame to snug up into.
the tubing on our trill is 3"(h) x 2" (w) all around.
(our trailer was made in Dec. 1974 [CMVSS sticker on the front])

Kev

[HikeSticks]

It's unlikely the fiberglass bodies were modified after the molds were made. Mine may appear higher and that's typical of the switchover to spring axles. If the later frames are all welded, and the early ones were single piece formed rails, it's possible the rail forming had been contracted out initially. Switching from formed to welded frames may have been done to move more production 'in house' to both save money and have more production timing control; just speculating though.

Update... As this reply was posted I see that Kevin had posted a picture between the time I started and finished my post. It appears they may have modified the lower mold to match the frame changes.

Barrie

[Randy Bishop]

Originally Posted by Kevin Poll

This is getting really interesting.
I am going to add a picture of the frame over the axle to compare to the picture that Barrie posted. What I think is more interesting than the fact that our original frames are set up completely different is that Barrie's trill has a completely different FG lower section than my Trill! His underside roughly follows the slope of the frame where it is offset at the axle and mine finishes square for the two parts of the frame to snug up into.
the tubing on our trill is 3"(h) x 2" (w) all around.
(our trailer was made in Dec. 1974 [CMVSS sticker on the front])

Kev

This is exactlly like the (2) 1976's that I have are made...I've got the body off one of mine that I'm redoing I'll post a picture of it when I get a chance............

[Francesca Knowles]

It occurs to me that there were some changes going on in the early '70's-
There was a general recall of the 1300 that affected Model years 1973 through 1976.
Apparently the frame was giving trouble- details at Road Safety Recalls Database
Could we be looking at various solutions/mods related to that?

Francesca

[Kevin Poll]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

It occurs to me that there were some changes going on in the early '70's-
There was a general recall of the 1300 that affected Model years 1973 through 1976.
Apparently the frame was giving trouble- details at Road Safety Recalls Database
Could we be looking at various solutions/mods related to that?

Francesca

I don't think so Francesca,
the weak point that is the subject of that recall (and I encourage everyone with an older trill to keep an eye on it) is where the front of the frame bends between the propane tanks and the trailer. the frame is bent in two places very close to each other and close to where the front of the trailer bears down on the frame. My understanding is that the bends create a weakpoint where the metal is stretched and distorted and now has a kinked shape. the way they were jigged each bend has a significant indent on the inside of the radius that weakens the overall rigidity of the square tube. It doesn't help that one of the bolt holes that hold the trill to the frame is right here as well.

Kev

[Francesca Knowles]

Hi, Kev

Barrie's frame is so different, I'm wondering if it's possible that somebody w-a-a-a-y "overcured" the problem as far as his particular trailer is concerned. In its recall notice, Trillium recommended welded-on gussets on either side of the arms, and I don't see anything like that on his trailer.
Or yours!
I can't quite tell from your picture (below)- is that a reinforcing plate atop the arm?
Could that be another "preventive" attempt to solve the same problem?

Francesca

[Kevin Poll]

No, my frame is still original.
I took that picture to show the deep divet in the metal from the way it was bent at the factory.
the skinny band is a tie wrap that holds the cable for the trailer lights.

[HikeSticks]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

It occurs to me that there were some changes going on in the early '70's-
There was a general recall of the 1300 that affected Model years 1973 through 1976.
Apparently the frame was giving trouble- details at Road Safety Recalls Database
Could we be looking at various solutions/mods related to that?

Francesca

Great work Francesca! How on earth did you find out about a 31 year old recall? Since my '72 is not included in the recall I can only speculate Trillium made a frame change in '73 that came back to bite them. I'm glad to have missed that party.
Barrie

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Kevin Poll

No, my frame is still original.
I took that picture to show the deep divet in the metal from the way it was bent at the factory.
the skinny band is a tie wrap that holds the cable for the trailer lights.

If I were you, I'd get me to a welder...
The problem as defined by Trillium is weakness at that point caused by heat treatment of the steel. That's pretty much invisible to the eye, though a welder's x-ray might reveal it.
The fix they recommended is meant as a preventive measure, and not a cure after the frame starts to bend- or, worse, after a crack opens up.
There are some who feel that "any trailer that's going to fail would have done so by now". I disagree with that mindset. As buyers of used trailers, we can't know their histories. Perhaps the most critical unknown in this case is how much time that weak point has spent subjected to the stresses of towing.
Those four gusset plates would sure eliminate the need to worry about this potentially disastrous failure.

Francesca

[Randy Bishop]

I'm working on the 1300 frame now and someone in the past scabbed a piece of metal right where the problem you are talking about is located, and as I was inspecting the previous workmenship it is obvious that at some point it failed at this location you can see the previous break in the frame..Who ever it was that tried to repair it done one CRAPPY job..Here's a shot....One is of the design of my trailer with the square tubes even though I have it upside down..My other campers have a piece of 1/4 flat steel about 16" long pointed on each end and there is one welded on the inside and outside of the frame on both sides (4) pieces total

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Randy Bishop

My other campers have a piece of 1/4 flat steel about 16" long pointed on each end and there is one welded on the inside and outside of the frame on both sides (4) pieces total

Hi, Randy

Sounds like your other trailers have the exact preventive fix originally recommended by Trillium.
But the one above has the repair of an actual failure- what a mess!
Did both sides fail, or just one?
Can't tell from the pics.

Francesca

[Randy Bishop]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Hi, Randy

Sounds like your other trailers have the exact preventive fix originally recommended by Trillium.
But the one above has the repair of an actual failure- what a mess!
Did both sides fail, or just one?
Can't tell from the pics.

Francesca

Both sides that might be the reason this one had been painted because there was some damage around the front nothing major looked like a few small holes that had be repaired..Been grinding my butt off trying to remove this bunch of crap and redo it properly..

The guy that usually does my welding was found dead at his shop Wed. night after he failed to come home for supper, his wife went to check on him and found him..He was 58 years old died from a heart attact they said.....He will be truelly missed he worked in that shop 7 days a week and could be seen welding well after dark, his shop was right next to the high school and 4 blocks from his house..Thing about it was no one found him til really late that night and I usually stop by to talk to him about 3 times a week just to shoot the crap.... I was going to go by that very evening but didn't get through removing the body from the frame that evening..if I had I might had found him in time to help who knows..Really sad story don't know what the farmers will do he fixed everything you could think of had ton of machines in his shop including a metal lathe and all..... if he couldn't fix it he would build you a new part.