Heater removal

[Bill Robison]

Originally Posted by aimeelightsey

One more question for Bill --
I know the Honda has done a great job making their new generators be more efficient and quiet, and I did see the specification for the decibels, but could you tell us about how far away you would need to be standing from it before you can't hear it anymore?

We just have no experience with generators in the slightest...

Thanks!

Good (difficult) question that requires a philosophical and subjective answer. What (large trees, water, rocks, steel buildings, etc.) is near where you are using the genny? How much load is on the Honda? How fast is it running? Is It covered? Is it sitting in a hole or recessed area in the ground? etc. etc.

How far away do you have to be from a tree falling in the woods before you will not hear it fall? I'm not trying to be difficult - I have a rather deep background in audiology and science of sound - I asked the same question before I decided to by one.

Perhaps the best answer available is - - for those who hate gennys, they would THINK they could still hear it a mile away ;-) If you haven't had a show or washed your hair for two days following a couple herd days of climbing, you would consider it to be super quiet while it runs for 10 minutes to heat water for two showers ;-) You see it is very subjective.

"...how far away you would need to be standing from it before you can't hear it anymore?" Hhmmm - last year we were allowed to use our Honda in a specified loop at Gros Ventre Campground in the Tetons - not heavily treed, two sites away it was a nearly imperceptible hum on ECO setting. I set it way in the back of the site - put a cover over it which dulls the sound of the motor and exhaust - with a flap I designed to send the sound to the ground (base of a tree) and if there is a depression in the ground set at the lowest point. I asked local campers if it was a nuisance for them - their response was, "What?". Others also had their quiet Honda or Yamaha running and they were not audible at our site even though we could easily see them - but those gennys that 'wake the dead' could be heard all the way out of the campground. Hope this helps some.

They certainly are far from perfect, but if you NEED power to charge a battery or heat water for a couple showers at at 4:00 pm - honestly who can complain? However, we have been at off-the-beaten-track national forest campground (Ty Flume) in the Bighorns where two 'campers' decided to watch TV in this serene place beside a rushing mountain stream - - one was a huge motor home with a diesel genny and the other was an old-style 5,000 watt (enough to run an entire home) sitting in the metal pickup bed of a 1983 Chevy doing the 'genny dance', while he watch his 12" TV in a tent - both of these ran for about 3 hrs - until past 11:00 pm ;-) Now the question begs to be asked, "...about how far away you would need to be standing from it before you can't hear it anymore?" - - maybe Cody, WY or Red Lodge, MT ;-)

The Honda IS quiet, but not silent. The sound it makes can be controlled by using a bit of common sense regarding where the spark arrestor exhaust is aimed, keep it on ECO setting and make a cover with an exhaust defector (which also works for rainy/snowy weather too). It can be running at your feet on ECO and you can carry on a conversation with another camper. Don't let it run all night with campers close by. Responsible genny use is much like driving a car safely - lots and lots of variables - all of which require good choices - to expect good outcome ;-)

Bill

[Vickie B.]

I'm one of those who isn't thrilled with propane---BUT my main reasoning is what Jesse said! We are redoing Bean's interior and the furnace is out, the 2 burner stove is out and the fridge is out!

I realized I'll always need storage space--but I won't always need a furnace. Maybe never---but I'm prepared to bring a electric cube and/or Mr. Buddy if I need some heat.

[aimeelightsey]

Originally Posted by Bill Robison

Good (difficult) question that requires a philosophical and subjective answer. What (large trees, water, rocks, steel buildings, etc.) is near where you are using the genny? How much load is on the Honda? How fast is it running? Is It covered? Is it sitting in a hole or recessed area in the ground? etc. etc.

How far away do you have to be from a tree falling in the woods before you will not hear it fall? I'm not trying to be difficult - I have a rather deep background in audiology and science of sound - I asked the same question before I decided to by one.

Perhaps the best answer available is - - for those who hate gennys, they would THINK they could still hear it a mile away ;-) If you haven't had a show or washed your hair for two days following a couple herd days of climbing, you would consider it to be super quiet while it runs for 10 minutes to heat water for two showers ;-) You see it is very subjective.

"...how far away you would need to be standing from it before you can't hear it anymore?" Hhmmm - last year we were allowed to use our Honda in a specified loop at Gros Ventre Campground in the Tetons - not heavily treed, two sites away it was a nearly imperceptible hum on ECO setting. I set it way in the back of the site - put a cover over it which dulls the sound of the motor and exhaust - with a flap I designed to send the sound to the ground (base of a tree) and if there is a depression in the ground set at the lowest point. I asked local campers if it was a nuisance for them - their response was, "What?". Others also had their quiet Honda or Yamaha running and they were not audible at our site even though we could easily see them - but those gennys that 'wake the dead' could be heard all the way out of the campground. Hope this helps some.

They certainly are far from perfect, but if you NEED power to charge a battery or heat water for a couple showers at at 4:00 pm - honestly who can complain? However, we have been at off-the-beaten-track national forest campground (Ty Flume) in the Bighorns where two 'campers' decided to watch TV in this serene place beside a rushing mountain stream - - one was a huge motor home with a diesel genny and the other was an old-style 5,000 watt (enough to run an entire home) sitting in the metal pickup bed of a 1983 Chevy doing the 'genny dance', while he watch his 12" TV in a tent - both of these ran for about 3 hrs - until past 11:00 pm ;-) Now the question begs to be asked, "...about how far away you would need to be standing from it before you can't hear it anymore?" - - maybe Cody, WY or Red Lodge, MT ;-)

The Honda IS quiet, but not silent. The sound it makes can be controlled by using a bit of common sense regarding where the spark arrestor exhaust is aimed, keep it on ECO setting and make a cover with an exhaust defector (which also works for rainy/snowy weather too). It can be running at your feet on ECO and you can carry on a conversation with another camper. Don't let it run all night with campers close by. Responsible genny use is much like driving a car safely - lots and lots of variables - all of which require good choices - to expect good outcome ;-)

Bill

Gotcha! Clear explanation, all right.
Thanks!
A L

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

For purposes of efficiencies comparison to my experience, how many days of the five weeks were you plugged in to shorepower?
In my case, there were none.

Peace (and quiet!) to you, too

Francesca

Originally Posted by Bill Robison

This is getting a bit on the childish side...

In my case there were three days in Utah - parked at my cousin's ;-)

Not sure what you mean ...'and quiet!' ??

;-)

Bill

Bill,

I see nothing childish in the question I posed. This thread was started by someone needing help with a decision as to whether or not to remove a gas heater from their trailer.
Comparisons are important:
I supplied myself with heat, refrigeration, hot water, and cooking for 6 days from 20 lbs ( 5 gallons m/l) of propane.
You supplied yourself with the same (plus any other on-board electrics) for 32 days using a group 24 battery charged by your TV and a generator that consumed only five gallons of gasoline. You used no propane whatsoever.
I call yours stupendous results, if not downright miraculous.
You win the fuel efficiency comparison, hands down.

As for my "and quiet to you, too" addition to your "peace" signoff, it was meant only to convey that I'll keep even so small a thing as a radio at a volume that prevents the noise it produces from leaving my small perimeter. You may depend on me as a camping neighbor to preserve your right to be free of such an intrusion.

Francesca

[aubrey johnson]

I took my heater out and put in a cupboard for storage. If it gets too cold at night I plug in a ceramic heater, as long as electricity is available. If not, I have a converter from 110 to 12 volt and it works fine. Body heat will do the trick too...lol.

[Roy in TO]

Brian,

You never mentioned what year your Scamp was or if it a gravity or fan heater.

If you have an early Scamp with a gravity heater ... that functions essentially like a propane BBQ with a pilot light. Very little that can go wrong. Parts are not all that expensive. Find a service guy to get it tested.

I'll PM you a link to someone just south of Barrie that I highly recommend. He is $$, but I gather they all are. He is called in to investigate insurance claims when there have been problems, but he will also teach you how to practice safe propane use.

[Darrell O]

Originally Posted by Brian in Ontario

Anyone ever regret taking out the original heater to utilize as more cupboard space and then regret it? My wife is concerned with the safety of using propane as heat and would rather just use electical but I have just read somewhere on here that propane is better in colder temps. Since we are in Ont. and we have camped in some fairly cold temps I'm trying to decide before I fix the heater or pull her out! Any advice or suggestions?
Thanks
Brian

Brian, does your furnace have a fan or is it the gravity/convection/fanless type ? I also thought of removing our furnace when we first got our trailer (1976 Ventura) - but now I'm glad I didn't.

When camping on grid we use the ceramic cube heater during waking hours, but switch to the gravity furnace at night so the cycling of the fan doesn't disturb our sleep. Even on the lowest setting the 10,000 btu furnace keeps the trailer comfortable when the temp drops below freezing.

Of course, when we're off grid - which is always the case in BC provincial parks, there's no contest between electric cube and propane heating.

[Gumpit]

Well I am also a little cautious of the propane. So whenever I can I use a small electric heater. Which warms the camper up just enough. I did go camping last week and had to use the propane heater because of no electric hookup. What I realized is that it was better than nothing. That I am still cautious and had the windows open maybe a little too wide. And I need to buy a detector as soon as possible in case I use it again. I was talking to someone and they said to mount the detector low. And that I should check out my heater to make sure nothing had been nesting in it to block the flow of air out.The heat did not seem as warm as I thought it should be but plenty of heat was coming outside from the vent so I don't think it was clogged in anyway,but I could be wrong. What should I look for to determine if the heater is up to par? What is a good detector to get? Where has anyone who owns a Trillium 4500 mounted theirs? Thanks Randy

[Francesca Knowles]

Are you talking about a Carbon monoxide detector, Randy?
I've had mine various places, and in five years haven't detected even a trace...
Since a properly adjusted propane heater produces only trace amounts (if any) of carbon monoxide, a CO detector is considered by some to be an unnecessary expense, but peace of mind is important, no?
Unlike from fuels like charcoal and gasoline, propane combustion byproducts mostly consist of carbon dioxide and water, neither of which is potentially lethal. The primary safety concern with propane is oxygen depletion, which shouldn't be a concern for you with your described venting system.

Francesca

[Gumpit]

Yes the carbon monoxide detector. Does it have to be mounted low as I was told? Is there a way to test the propane heaters efficiency? How do I know it is putting out enough heat? It seems like it should get the camper warmer. But again it may have been from the window being open to allow air in. Peace of mind is priceless.... Randy

[Francesca Knowles]

Hi, Randy

Carbon monoxide is approximately as heavy as room air- it doesn't "sink" like unburnt propane gases. You can place your detector anyplace in the trailer.
Again, though- poisonings from propane combusted CO are almost unheard of.
Consumption of (your!) oxygen by the combustion process is the primary hazard associated with burning propane. Adequate ventilation is imperative.
Raw propane gas can certainly kill you- by poisoning or explosion!- so it's very wise to have your whole trailer system tested for leaks periodically. Most RV places can do that test. They can also assess the efficiency of your heater.
You don't say what heater you have- is it the original "gravity" type that came with the trailer? I wasn't satisfied with the amount of heat mine put out, so I replaced it. I do a lot of winter camping, though- as I recall, even Trillium marketed the original setups as
"3-season" units.
And I'm pretty sure that one of those three seasons wasn't winter!
Trilliums aren't the warmest trailers out there, with their single wall construction...

Hope this helps!

Francesca