Heating a 17' TT. QUIETLY, please!

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by Nik

I understand the catalytic heaters need the o2 in the cabin, thus the need for an open window to avoid death. I was wondering if anyone has ported an air vent more directly to the heater.

Wood stoves heat much better if their air intake is ported to the outside. My wood stove (in the house) has a 3" pipe bringing air through the wall directly into the air intake of the stove. The stove doesn't steal the air from the house. Therefore, no drafts.

The Wave 3 needs 24 sq.in. of window opening. A 3" tube is 28 sq/in. What about running a short tube from the outside air directly under the heater? I bring this up because I like the idea of giving the heater what it needs for o2 without creating the drafts and heat loss from an open window. Basically - give the stove its own tiny, directly accessible 'open window'.

I know it's more complex than cracking a couple windows, but considering how well this basic idea works with wood stoves, why not the same principle with this catalytic combustion system?

I believe you would still need to open a window or vent with the tube unless there is considerable air coming in. The furnace burns up the air and leaves carbon monoxide. I've had a friends husband die and a friends friend at church die for loss of air. Use your factory installed heater or an electric heater that shuts off if tipped. We have a round one that doesn't get hot on the outside, has a temp control and fan.

[1500]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Please provide documentation on to determine if a Wave heater has the oxygen [depletion] sensor or not. The manual makes no mention of one.

Then you are looking at the wrong model.

[TomK]

Originally Posted by David B.

I believe Jon lives in the White Mountains region of Arizona where they get cold and snow. We live next door to “Lost Dutchman State Park” where many FGRV snow bird members have spent some time wintering.
Dave & Paula

Dave, I was just joshing. I know some of the coldest nights I can remember were in places that would surprise you. In '69 I remember pulling a guard detail one night in Vietnam. The guy I relieved gave me 2 field jackets to stay warm. They were the only field jackets in the Company. Who needs a jacket in Vietnam? I learned from the Soldier who relieved me, it was 70º. My teeth were chattering, and I was from MI. The Sahara desert can feel very cold at night, but that's another story.

I've never been to AZ. My niece lives in Phoenix, and my cousins used to live in Flagstaff. Joanne and I are going to take a short side trip to the North Rim N.P. in June. I know we'll be back for an extended trip there one of these days. Should we bring Winter coats?

Tom

[k corbin]

Originally Posted by Nik

I understand the catalytic heaters need the o2 in the cabin, thus the need for an open window to avoid death. I was wondering if anyone has ported an air vent more directly to the heater.

Wood stoves heat much better if their air intake is ported to the outside. My wood stove (in the house) has a 3" pipe bringing air through the wall directly into the air intake of the stove. The stove doesn't steal the air from the house. Therefore, no drafts.

The Wave 3 needs 24 sq.in. of window opening. A 3" tube is 28 sq/in. What about running a short tube from the outside air directly under the heater? I bring this up because I like the idea of giving the heater what it needs for o2 without creating the drafts and heat loss from an open window. Basically - give the stove its own tiny, directly accessible 'open window'.

I know it's more complex than cracking a couple windows, but considering how well this basic idea works with wood stoves, why not the same principle with this catalytic combustion system?

A basic geometry lesson that you learned in junior high school
The radius of a 3 inch diameter tube is 1.5 inches. To find the area of a circle you multiply Pi (3.1416) with the square of the radius (r) 2. The area of a circle with a radius length of 1.5 inches is: 7.0686 square inches which is considerably less than the 28 square inches you have stated above in your posting.

While the 3 inch tube will assist in bringing in fresh air it does not actually function as well as a direct air intake on a furnace or wood stove designed with such functionality. On those units all the air coming in goes directly to the furnace's burner unit through an enclosed tube rather than being generally distributed into the interior of the RV. The Wave 3 heater does not have that type of burner unit. So that is the flaw in your theory of the tube itself being enough, you do not have a direct air intake burner on a Wave 3. The second flaw in the theory is you do not have an enclosed exhaust stack to take away the harmful gases produced by combustion. Instead they are distributed inside of the interior space.

A tube down low by the heater will help provide some of the fresh air intake. However you will still need to have an opening in the RV higher up for exhaust. This specific information is in the Wave 3 manual. That second opening also helps to bring in additional fresh air. The hot air rising on up and out through an upper opening is very important as it helps move the exhaust air fumes from below on out of the RV.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by 1500

Then you are looking at the wrong model.

That is particularly unhelpful. If you can tell me how to tell if a Wave Catalytic heater has a oxygen sensor or not, that would be nice.

[1500]

Originally Posted by gordon2

That is particularly unhelpful. If you can tell me how to tell if a Wave Catalytic heater has a oxygen sensor or not, that would be nice.

I did not know that you were the one stuck on the Olympian wave 3 heater. while people were discussion catalytic heaters in general. Some models have some, some do not. If you want to have a model that has an oxygen sensor then you get one that does. I suggest you do a simple google search for models that have that type of sensor.

The Olympian wave 3 brand and its line of heaters do not come with a sensor.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by 1500

You are the one stuck on the wave 3 heater. while people were discussion catalytic heaters in general. Some models have some, some do not. If you want to have a model that has an oxygen sensor then you get one that does. I suggest you do a simple google search for models that have that type of sensor.

The Olympian wave 3 brand and its line of heaters do not come with a sensor.

OK now I understand your confusion. If go back to posts 2,3 and 4... the discussion was specially about the Wave heaters. Perhaps Jon was speaking of catalytic heaters in general but he did not specify and the prior discussion was specifically about the Wave heaters which as you point out, do not have the sensor.

[sharon_b]

If you have shore power, what about an electric blanket or heated mattress pad? Total silence & good heat. When you get up fire up ol’ Noisy heater

[1500]

Originally Posted by k corbin

A basic geometry lesson that you learned in junior high school
The radius of a 3 inch diameter tube is 1.5 inches. To find the area of a circle you multiply Pi (3.1416) with the square of the radius (r) 2. The area of a circle with a radius length of 1.5 inches is: 7.0686 square inches which is considerably less than the 28 square inches you have stated above in your posting.

While the 3 inch tube will assist in bringing in fresh air it does not actually function as well as a direct air intake on a furnace or wood stove designed with such functionality. On those units all the air coming in goes directly to the furnace's burner unit through an enclosed tube rather than being generally distributed into the interior of the RV. The Wave 3 heater does not have that type of burner unit. So that is the flaw in your theory of the tube itself being enough, you do not have a direct air intake burner on a Wave 3. The second flaw in the theory is you do not have an enclosed exhaust stack to take away the harmful gases produced by combustion. Instead they are distributed inside of the interior space.

A tube down low by the heater will help provide some of the fresh air intake. However you will still need to have an opening in the RV higher up for exhaust. This specific information is in the Wave 3 manual. That second opening also helps to bring in additional fresh air. The hot air rising on up and out through an upper opening is very important as it helps move the exhaust air fumes from below on out of the RV.

Opening a top vent also helps with condensation, something else a Catalytic heater makes worse.

If you did go with a 3" pipe, you could add a small DC fan (something like a PC fan) that could be set to blow in fresh air. They would be nearly silent and would provide plenty of O to the heater. It would use some power, but it should be small.

[1500]

Originally Posted by gordon2

OK now I understand your confusion. If go back to posts 2,3 and 4... the discussion was specially about the Wave heaters. Perhaps Jon was speaking of catalytic heaters in general but he did not specify and the prior discussion was specifically about the Wave heaters which as you point out, do not have the sensor.

Well you did demand a specific poster for documentation that wave heaters had one, when his post was not talking about the Wave 3 heater specifically. Why he would provide the documentation instead of you just looking it up is well...

Next time perhaps just ask if people know if the Wave 3 heater has one or not, and avoid the confusion.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by David B.

I believe Jon lives in the White Mountains region of Arizona where they get cold and snow. We live next door to “Lost Dutchman State Park” where many FGRV snow bird members have spent some time wintering.
Dave & Paula

LOL... the last time we used our furnace was at Lost Dutchman State Park last Thanksgiving. Overnight temps were in the upper 30's following an early winter storm with a chilly NW wind, and the factory furnace was oh, so nice! And yes, noisy!

Originally Posted by TomK

...I've never been to AZ. My niece lives in Phoenix, and my cousins used to live in Flagstaff. Joanne and I are going to take a short side trip to the North Rim N.P. in June. I know we'll be back for an extended trip there one of these days. Should we bring Winter coats?

Unless you come in high summer (worst time to visit- too hot in the low desert and too crowded in the high country), I would bring a coat*. You might even need it in June at the North Rim. *What we call a "winter coat" you might call a mid-weight jacket...

Arizona's climate is extremely varied and variable. September through November is best. The high country is still warm through early October, and by mid-October the low deserts are becoming comfortable for outdoor recreation. The general low humidity means nights can be cool almost any time of year. Do visit, and if you make it to the White Mountains, I hope you'll look us up!

[TomK]

On a very cold night, when you need it the most, the silence of an inoperable furnace is far more likely to cause my loss of sleep, than the noise of one keeping us warm.

Tom

[k0wtz]

nik I don't know if anyone has done this or not. If your wave 3 is working I wouldn't send it in just my 2c.

I too read the dust thing but I really don't think a camper can get much dust in it.

bob

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Please provide documentation on the oxygen [depletion] sensor to establish that the Wave heaters do in fact have one.

Sorry to leave you hanging, Gordon...

Not all catalytic heaters have ODS. Some do and some do not. I thought the Wave heaters did, but as you correctly point out, they do not. Olympian does make other models that do. Sorry to add confusion to this overheated (pun intended) discussion...

That changes very little about the main point, though: mucking about with the ventilation set-up for a Wave (or any other unvented heater) without thorough testing is extremely risky. My (unprofessional and untested) instinct is that installing a hose to supply outside air to an open system is unlikely to work because the heater will draw its air supply along the path of least resistance, i.e., from the cabin. And it does nothing to move the byproducts of combustion- water vapor and carbon dioxide- out of the cabin.

Originally Posted by 1500

...If you did go with a 3" pipe, you could add a small DC fan (something like a PC fan) that could be set to blow in fresh air. They would be nearly silent and would provide plenty of O to the heater. It would use some power, but it should be small.

Might work, but without careful testing under various conditions, it's a gamble with your life. It adds another hole to the shell versus a window that's already there. And you still need a top vent cracked open.

In any case, I suspect we may have scared off the OP...

[k0wtz]

I have ran these sorts of heaters for over 30 years have one running in our family room right now!

in reading up on the wave heaters there are people running up to 2 in their rvs also if your read up and follow the instructions these heaters are safe to use.

I haven't boondocked yet with the scamper 13f yet but will in the next couple of days so I will find out out if it heats her up. In feb. we camped at 20d snow, sleet and wind in Kansas. it kept the A-Liner comfortable all the nights we needed it!

If you go to amazon there are many positive reviews of these heaters. I wish I had got a wave 6 though but the 3 runs very cheaply.

I suppose everyone has to make their own decisions for me I will continue to use mine!

bob

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Sorry to leave you hanging, Gordon...

Not all catalytic heaters have ODS. Some do and some do not....

Thanks for the clarification. The only catalytic heater mentioned in the discussion up to your post was the Wave, and it was followed by Nik’s question about needing an open window for it, so one could have concluded from your general statement that the Wave did have an oxygen depletion sensor. In the past I have heard that it did yet I was unable to find anything to show that it does, so I wanted to be sure we got that clarified one way or the other.

I think the Mr. Buddy heaters have ODP sensors, but I don’t know what other catalytic heaters do. I’m not sure how necessary they are anyway, assuming you follow the directions for ventilation and don’t fall asleep with the heater running. And I am not sure I would trust my life to the sensor anyway, which means that I choose to make sure that I am always consciousness when an unvented catalytic heater is in use so that I can recognize any of the signs of hypoxia. And I would not use one as a primary and daily heater. YMMV.

As for the rest of your comments about a specialized air supply, I agree. Furthermore, any air supply tube would add resistance to flow according to its size, length and other factors. One would want it screened, as well as some way to close the vent when the heater was not in use. Seems like a bad idea when a cracked window and roof vent is easy and consistent with the manufacture’s instructions.

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by k0wtz

I have ran these sorts of heaters for over 30 years have one running in our family room right now!

in reading up on the wave heaters there are people running up to 2 in their rvs also if your read up and follow the instructions these heaters are safe to use.

I haven't boondocked yet with the scamper 13f yet but will in the next couple of days so I will find out out if it heats her up. In feb. we camped at 20d snow, sleet and wind in Kansas. it kept the A-Liner comfortable all the nights we needed it!

If you go to amazon there are many positive reviews of these heaters. I wish I had got a wave 6 though but the 3 runs very cheaply.

I suppose everyone has to make their own decisions for me I will continue to use mine!

bob

I had an Aliner for a year, and it was even easier to heat than my previous (Burro 17') or current (Lil Hauley) fg trailers. The Aliner has so little upper volume in comparison. During 50* weather, I had trouble keeping a variable-speed cube heater from roasting me out in the Aliner. That said, the eggs are still way easier to heat than a big ol' stick trailer. I once had a 23' Rockwood, and in freezing weather a cube heater could run all day and only bring the inside temp up to low 40s.

[k0wtz]

wow I guess you are right when you think about the A-Liner but mine had gaps in the roof and all the al. to heat.


yes on the stick built trailer I haven't camped 20d wx yet so hoping the wave will keep up.


bob

[jcstanley]

I just installed a Airtronics ( espar D2 ) in my 13 ft. boler . It is very quiet and really puts out the heat . it is fueled with diesel fuel , uses 1/3 litre per hour . this is the same heater truckers have used for years . it gets its combustion air from outside and exhausts outside . 2 gal tank on the trailer tongue will last 24 hrs and it is VERY SAFE ! good luck John

[Gordon in Idaho]

In reply to the original poster: It sure sounds like the thermostat is bad and needs replacement or adjustment. In my situation, endless fiddling with the temperature setting is required to get it just right. I'm more inclined to use an inline switch between the furnace and the thermostat, and turn it on and off as needed. This is the one I use:
https://www.amazon.com/Sea-Dog-42201...g+switch+panel
This also serves as a sub panel for the water pump, interior lights, and stereo, and it's easy to reach from my bed. It's also easy to see at a glance if those things are turned off before closing the door on the Scamp and heading out to the next campsite.

I gave up on my Wave3 after one season. Jon does a great job of explaining the disadvantages. I found that it only takes a few minutes to heat up the interior of a 13' Scamp with a furnace (and with the windows closed!). I consider it a luxury to be able to bask in instant warmth after a walk in the cold. And in the morning, turning it on a few minutes before getting out of bed. Wonderful. My dog loves it, too.

Gordon