Heating a 17' TT. QUIETLY, please!

[Nik]

The heater in my 17' trailer functions as designed. It was newly installed before I bought the trailer. It starts fine and heats the cabin up well. I'm not complaining. But... it goes on and off a lot. Sometimes it clicks on again immediately after going off. I need to better insulate with heavier curtains, that might help, but I'm also wondering...

...has anyone had good experiences with quiet space heating systems? Perhaps without fans. Catalytic models, maybe? Are there any other newer LP systems out there? Or maybe there's a quality replacement heater that's built with quiet in mind?

I find the quality of advice on this board is really amazing. Thanks in advance.

[1500]

I have a Catalytic heater, wave 3 (older unit and might not function as well as it could) in my 16' scamp.



It does a good job. With it set to high and outside temps down to the high 20's it was able to keep the internal temp at 53 or so. In the 30s it keeps the inside in the high 50s. And outside temps of mid 40s it hit 85 before I turned it off and this was on low.

[Nik]

Thanks. Nice interior.
Do you have to keep a window cracked open when you're using this heater? I've heard that the case with these? Perhaps there's another way to allow it to breathe?

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Nik

Thanks. Nice interior.
Do you have to keep a window cracked open when you're using this heater? I've heard that the case with these? Perhaps there's another way to allow it to breathe?

You always should have the roof vent or a window cracked a bit with any heater running, with LP mainly, but to also limit the condensation build up inside from breathing.

[C&G in FL]

Perhaps a different alternative here, but foam ear plugs are a lot less expensive and require no modifications. If you really want to be “warm,” the furnace that is already installed would seem to be the way to go. If it is cycling to much, perhaps a thermostat upgrade would address that situation. Fans, while noisy, move warm air more rapidly than convection currents. And While Aaron stated his catalytic heater may not be functioning properly, I personally would not consider an inside temperature of 53° to be comfortable. Try the earplugs when sleeping; you may be pleasantly surprised.

[gordon2]

For the air supply requirements for the Wave catalytic heaters see page six of the manual.

For LP, the ProPex heater can be mounted under the camper and if you use longer duct work, the noise level will be noticeably less. If it is mounted inside and / or with short ducting, I think the noise level will be similar to other RV furnaces.

If you are on shore power perhaps a small oil-filled radiator style electric heater would work. I have a larger one for my home and it is silent except for an occasional click, but the clearance requirements make it impractical for my small Scamp.

[Carol and Mike]

We use a small Vornado space heater. It is small and very quiet. It has three power settings, 750W, 1150W and 1500W, the low setting is usually enough. It sits on the floor in between the beds blowing to the back of the trailer. Mike

[k0wtz]

first of all are you at a campground or boondocking? If you are at a campground then an el. heater is the way I would go why use your expensive propane? I have a wave 3 we boondock it keeps the 13f scamper compfy it wont run you out for sure. I think a 16f would need a larger stove in my opinion.

we also used the wave 3 in a drafty A-Liner and it was ok not great but the A-Liner had all sorts of gaps in it!

sort of different strokes for different folks I suppose!

bob

[Jon in AZ]

I'll second CPW's suggestions as a first step. Insulate windows, upgrade to a digital thermostat, and try ear plugs. Some people find relocating the thermostat can improve cycling behavior. The really short cycles you describe could also mean a bad thermostat.

Combustion consumes oxygen and produces water vapor and carbon dioxide as the primary by-products, along with small amounts of really nasty things like carbon monoxide. Your factory furnace is vented, meaning the combustion chamber is sealed from the cabin, drawing oxygen and sending the by-products outside. The Propex Gordon mentioned is the only vented alternative I'm aware of. It's expensive and still fairly noisy. A ducted installation reduces efficiency even further, and vented furnaces are already the least efficient heating option, requiring propane and 12V power to run the blower. The upside is safety, which is why they are industry standard for factory installations. The Suburban/Atwood units haven't changed much in 30 years, so I'd say the industry is ripe for a ground-up redesign that addresses both efficiency and NVH. Until then, they are what they are, and I choose safety over sound.

A catalytic heater is unvented, so it consumes cabin oxygen and emits water vapor and carbon dioxide. That's why there is a minimum fresh air exchange required by opening windows or vents. That's also why condensation is a bigger issue with catalytic heaters. The catalyst lowers the temperature at which combustion occurs and an oxygen sensor minimizes carbon monoxide formation. It can still emit minute amounts, so a working CO detector is critical (as with any fuel-burning appliance, but especially here). I believe there is a Wave 6 with a higher output than the Wave 3, but more heat means more ventilation needed and more water vapor produced. I'd actually consider 53 degrees great for sleeping, but perhaps not so great to wake up and change clothes in. Catalytic heaters, in addition to the venting issues, must be protected from dirt and dust (i.e., covered when not in use) to prevent contamination of the catalyst-coated pads. Lots of safety-related fine print, but the upside is near-silent operation and no power draw, making them a popular choice for boondockers.

No easy solutions. A ceramic cube or other electric heater works great if you have power. The small blower on the one I had stayed on continuously, so it served as background white noise. Our camping style does not usually involve hook-ups, so that option is off the table.

I grew up near RR tracks: a B&O freight line was a quarter mile in one direction and an Amtrack passenger line a quarter mile on the other side, with loud horns and track noise at irregular intervals through the night. Never woke me up. But after living for many years away from trains, now they do. Over time most people can acclimate to familiar noises.

[k0wtz]

aaron have you noticed any dust on the pad of your heater yet? I have ours on a quick disconnect and keep it in a bag when not in use!


dust is supposed to be big nono. just wondering?


bob

[k0wtz]

nik we keep our roof vent cracked a tad and a window cracked also. not a lot but you want to keep fresh air coming in to replace what is used by the heater!


bob

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by 1500

I have a Catalytic heater, wave 3 (older unit and might not function as well as it could) in my 16' scamp.
...

If you suspect the catalyst pad is contaminated, which is more likely with a unit which is uncovered when not in use and near the floor, then you really should replace it. A bad pad will not create complete combustion and toxic gases could be the result.

[1500]

Originally Posted by k0wtz

aaron have you noticed any dust on the pad of your heater yet? I have ours on a quick disconnect and keep it in a bag when not in use!


dust is supposed to be big nono. just wondering?


bob

Originally Posted by gordon2

If you suspect the catalyst pad is contaminated, which is more likely with a unit which is uncovered when not in use and near the floor, then you really should replace it. A bad pad will not create complete combustion and toxic gases could be the result.

I have not seen any dust build on it, and have since created a cover for it. My comment is because I have only purchased the scamp a few weeks ago and have no idea of the history of the heater.

I have no way of knowing if the pad is contaminated, it works, does not produce a smell and does not have a hard time lighting. As those are the only things listed in the manual to check then I assume it should be ok.

That being said, it is an older unit, in order to get the pad replaced I would need to send it in to the manufacture. At that point it might be worth just looking into getting a new larger one.

[Nik]

I understand the catalytic heaters need the o2 in the cabin, thus the need for an open window to avoid death. I was wondering if anyone has ported an air vent more directly to the heater.

Wood stoves heat much better if their air intake is ported to the outside. My wood stove (in the house) has a 3" pipe bringing air through the wall directly into the air intake of the stove. The stove doesn't steal the air from the house. Therefore, no drafts.

The Wave 3 needs 24 sq.in. of window opening. A 3" tube is 28 sq/in. What about running a short tube from the outside air directly under the heater? I bring this up because I like the idea of giving the heater what it needs for o2 without creating the drafts and heat loss from an open window. Basically - give the stove its own tiny, directly accessible 'open window'.

I know it's more complex than cracking a couple windows, but considering how well this basic idea works with wood stoves, why not the same principle with this catalytic combustion system?

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Nik

The heater in my 17' trailer functions as designed. It was newly installed before I bought the trailer. It starts fine and heats the cabin up well. I'm not complaining. But... it goes on and off a lot. Sometimes it clicks on again immediately after going off. I need to better insulate with heavier curtains, that might help, but I'm also wondering...

...has anyone had good experiences with quiet space heating systems? Perhaps without fans. Catalytic models, maybe? Are there any other newer LP systems out there? Or maybe there's a quality replacement heater that's built with quiet in mind?

I find the quality of advice on this board is really amazing. Thanks in advance.

Nik,

This is a recurring subject. Here's a fairly recent thread from this forum that sounded rather positive.

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...t16-80113.html

Some of the other threads I have read on this subject were not so positive. It seems there was one or more lengthy threads involving installing PWM motor speed controllers (on one of the Casita forums?) that ended without success. Likewise, here's a 2009/10 thread from the Airstream forum concerning a then-new furnace that ended with disappointment.

High efficiency furnace(s)&multi speed blowers - Airstream Forums

The Airstream thread (post #63) mentioned a unit manufactured by Truma. I have no personal experience with these units. Their website for north America only has combination water heater / heaters, the "Combi". An Australian site additionally has a compact furnace.

https://www.truma.com/au/en/products...400-truma.html

I've read of folks who considered installing a loop of plumbing to the "standard" 6-gallon propane water heater but I don't recall seeing anyone that had followed through.

A different thermostat might reduce the cycling. Earplugs would certainly be the most expedient and least inexpensive approach.

[floyd]

A wood stove would be great, and quiet until you touch it!
Then it can get real loud...

[rbryan]

If a suitable location to mount it could be found, I really like the Dickinson Marine Newport heaters. They direct vent to outside and run almost silent.

I figured out once that I could install one in what is currently the pantry shelves. The connection to the current Atwood furnace could be used as well. But, no way I'd give up the pantry space. We just deal with the furnace noise as best we can, and use a small ceramic heater when the furnace isn't needed.

[Ev in Oregon]

Originally Posted by Nik

I know it's more complex than cracking a couple windows, but considering how well this basic idea works with wood stoves, why not the same principle with this catalytic combustion system?

You may be on to something, Nik. If you're looking for a side job, I'll bet you'd find a lot of RVers who'd appreciate this mod! It makes perfect sense to me, and who doesn't prefer a whisper-quiet heating source?

I live in my Bigfoot full-time (by choice ), and I'm connected to shore power for the time being. I don't use my propane furnace because I can't hear myself think when the fan is running. Instead, I use a very small portable electric heater that warms up my tiny house in under 10 minutes. The best part: my electric bill has never been more than $5/month total; that includes everything in my tiny house that uses electricity.

The very nice thing about this forum is that you'll get varying opinions and lots of advice based on real experiences. Then, you can decide your course of action. These folks have answered my dumb questions and given me excellent advice without nary a snicker, at least not to my face. Good luck with your quest.

[Tom 72]

Mike in post 15 mentioned the thermostat. I am not an expert in HVAC, but thermostats have a device called a thermostat heat anticipator. Search those 3 words to learn more. The heat anticipator can lengthen or shorten the time between on/off cycles. In some cases, it will shut the furnace off a bit before the desired temp is reached, in anticipation of more heat flow. I think in other cases, it will allow you to adjust the amount of temp. drop before it cycles back on, to reduce cycling.

PS, All electric heat is equal in efficiency, but I am a fan of ceramic cubes.

[corgicat]

I recently bought one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It worked great keeping my 24 foot motorhome toasty at the beach at the end of October, and I was only using the MIN switch. Totally quiet (I have had other oil-filled radiators that make a soft clicking noise when the oil is first heating up, but this one did not). No combustion source, so no need to crack a window.

However, if you don't need it soon, wait and watch the price. When I bought mine in mid-October on Amazon, it was $50. Last week it was $65 (I wanted to buy a second one for my bathroom at home). Just now it is showing $78! I see this happen all the time on Amazon.