Holes through the shell - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 12-31-2014, 10:50 PM   #15
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Name: Darral
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It isnt necessarily the "rivets" that's the problem with Scamp. It's the plastic snap-caps and washers. I've had two on top of my Scamp that secures the closet to come loose and leak wetting the ratfur in my closet. I caught it by seeing black residue around the acorn nut covers at the closet. I replaced them with a 10-24 stainless steel bolts and locknuts. No snap caps. But I sealed the bolts on top with 100% pure silicone. No problems yet. I keep a watch on it. (Keep in mind, these are on top and not noticeable; thus the reason for bolts and silicone)

I do NOT agree with Scamp installing curtains rods, under the cabinet lights, etc with rivets and snap caps. I have yet to figure out why they didnt mount the light to the cabinet instead? Poor design...anyway...

There's NOTHING wrong with cutting holes and installing hatches etc. for individual mods. I installed an outside 115v plug and feel 100% confident with it.

But more rivets with plastic snap caps? For me? It's an emphatic NO!
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Old 12-31-2014, 10:55 PM   #16
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Dave, I've made numerous modifications but never made a hole through the skin of my fiberglass trailer yet because I didn't need to. I've found some modern adhesives that produce as good or better a bond than can be achieved with a bolted mount. Fiberglass moves and flexes a lot and these adhesives never get completely hard so they move with the joint. This is better than a rigid joint. If I need to drill a hole sometime in the future I will but haven't needed to so far.

Steve
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Old 01-01-2015, 05:51 AM   #17
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Adding a hole to the fiberglass shell adds to the maintenance list. It's one more thing you have to keep an eye on. Failure to do so could lead to a big project. It is often said on this forum that floors rot from the inside out and lack of maintenance is the reason. Raz
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Old 01-01-2015, 06:55 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Darral T. View Post
No snap caps. But I sealed the bolts on top with 100% pure silicone. No problems yet.
Silicone and No problems yet go hand-in-hand!
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:09 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Darral T. View Post
It isnt necessarily the "rivets" that's the problem with Scamp. It's the plastic snap-caps and washers. I've had two on top of my Scamp that secures the closet to come loose and leak wetting the ratfur in my closet. I caught it by seeing black residue around the acorn nut covers at the closet. I replaced them with a 10-24 stainless steel bolts and locknuts. No snap caps. But I sealed the bolts on top with 100% pure silicone. No problems yet. I keep a watch on it. (Keep in mind, these are on top and not noticeable; thus the reason for bolts and silicone)

I do NOT agree with Scamp installing curtains rods, under the cabinet lights, etc with rivets and snap caps. I have yet to figure out why they didnt mount the light to the cabinet instead? Poor design...anyway...

There's NOTHING wrong with cutting holes and installing hatches etc. for individual mods. I installed an outside 115v plug and feel 100% confident with it.

But more rivets with plastic snap caps? For me? It's an emphatic NO!
Darral, I know this post might be a little controversial, but I think the bigger structural items fastened to the outer shell might benefit from MORE rivets. I'm talking about the closet and the overhead closets specifically. I know from reading this forum that you're not supposed to load heavy items in the overhead cabinets, especially during travel. I think Scamp even warns you not to do that, but could probably emphasize it more.

I was surprised to see the front overhead is help up by a mere 6 rivets, and the rear side overhead cabinets by only 4. We're careful not to put heavy things up there, but I don't think it would be a problem if a few more rivets were holding them up. More rivets would help decrease the load on the few holding those cabinets up, and help prevent failure. Of course that would mean you'd have more rivet caps to inspect and replace every few years, but that's a minor job compared to replacing the entire rivet, or dealing with elongated holes in the roof.

I agree there would probably be a better way to hold the curtains up than all those rivets, but I don't think they'll present much of a leaking problem if maintained properly. They are not structural.

I'll put a couple pictures up that show how few rivets hold the cabinets in place. You can see the chrome acorn nuts clearly.

Tom
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:13 AM   #20
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If you use a good brand of pure silicone and know how to put it on (clean surfaces is NOT an option!) then there's no reason to have a problem with it. Scamp used it on my Fantastic fan and looking at it periodically, it still looks like it did from the factory. I know some prefer other stuff... but for this purpose (sealing the bolt heads)...I wouldnt have considered anything but silicone.

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Silicone and No problems yet go hand-in-hand!
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:26 AM   #21
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Stick around Darral and let us know how well it works out. Better yet, let us know how it works out to remove it.

Best of lucky, truly.
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:29 AM   #22
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TOMK.:

I agree 100% with your post. Maybe more rivets WOULD hold the cabinets and prevent what I think is happening-- shifting when going down the road. The closet I speak of on my Scamp is the larger clothes closet since mine is the standard model with the 45" bed. The wife simply hangs light clothing in there and they have very little room to move around.

Simply put, there's other ways around using rivets on the light-duty stuff- lights, curtains etc. and that's my biggest complaint. But I still woudlnt trade these bolts I used for rivets. I know some will disagree....

One thing I thought about, I DID add a couple of rivets to my Scamp when I installed the Dometic awning leg mounts to the side of my trailer! I used one rivet and one screw (for a reason) for each mount. I siliconed everything and used a METAL washer on the backside of the rivets (inside the Scamp). The awning has beaten pretty good on the mounts and they show NO sign of loosening whatsoever. Again, it's the plastic snap caps (as Jon in AZ speaks of) that's the real culprit in my opinion.

As Borrego Dave started out, there's nothing wrong with adding anything you want- as long as you're vigilant and careful with your work. The HARDEST thing I've ever done, is punching that FIRST hole in the Scamp!
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:37 AM   #23
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The affirmative camp has been heard from rather extensively. Now, having been in debate long ago, I'll present the negative to the proposition.

If it is true that a few more hull perforations don't really matter, why not add about 50? Or 150? Or 500? In fact, why not just get a trailer with roof seams? After all, as you say, avoiding leaks is simply a matter of some routine and un-bothersome maintenance.

You see, the aversion to adding holes and rivets comes as an extrapolation to the argument against stick built trailers. Such trailers have long seams between roof and sidewall, as well as between adjacent sidewalls, and these seams can eventually leak. A molded FG body has less potential leak points, and this is a primary advantage. Therefore, reason dictates that adding rivets or hatches means you are adding future leak points. If each through-hole (including window openings) has a certain statistical probability of eventually leaking, one can find the mathematical probability of a leak occurring somewhere by multiplying times the number of through-holes.

Well, there you have it. Just trying to keep the thread 'fair and balanced, lol.
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Old 01-01-2015, 01:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mike Magee View Post
The affirmative camp has been heard from rather extensively. Now, having been in debate long ago, I'll present the negative to the proposition.

If it is true that a few more hull perforations don't really matter, why not add about 50? Or 150? Or 500? In fact, why not just get a trailer with roof seams? After all, as you say, avoiding leaks is simply a matter of some routine and un-bothersome maintenance.

You see, the aversion to adding holes and rivets comes as an extrapolation to the argument against stick built trailers. Such trailers have long seams between roof and sidewall, as well as between adjacent sidewalls, and these seams can eventually leak. A molded FG body has less potential leak points, and this is a primary advantage. Therefore, reason dictates that adding rivets or hatches means you are adding future leak points. If each through-hole (including window openings) has a certain statistical probability of eventually leaking, one can find the mathematical probability of a leak occurring somewhere by multiplying times the number of through-holes.

Well, there you have it. Just trying to keep the thread 'fair and balanced, lol.
Response to...

Second paragraph....
High blood pressure is said to be a health hazard, extremely high means imminent death... no blood pressure is even worse!
Conclusion? There is a mid-range blood pressure which is better than either extreme!

Third paragraph...
Is the best example of a strawman argument on this thread.
(maybe on this subject!). Good job!

There you have it,... as long as "fair" is defined as " a synonym to carnival".
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Old 01-01-2015, 06:16 PM   #25
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God Bless Tom! I've always appreciated how encouraging you are. Makes one who is alone feel like there's company. Have a great new year!


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV
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Old 01-01-2015, 06:56 PM   #26
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Maybe a good question, would be what type of fastener has worked and also looked good in FG inside and outside.
I have no issues with the looks of the acorn nuts such as the ones Scamp uses on the ends of the rivets on the inside of the trailer.
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:42 PM   #27
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I have no issues with the looks of the acorn nuts such as the ones Scamp uses on the ends of the rivets on the inside of the trailer.
Me either Carol. It's the "caulk" on the exterior that causes me heartburn. Silicone is CHEAP and low-end manufacturers are only concerned about the trailer being "leak free" during that warranty. Thank GOODNESS for members here on FiberglassRV that can provide education about caulks...
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:55 PM   #28
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I'm a member of several 'sticky' vintage trailer groups, and that 'silly-cone' has just as terrible reputation there also. Because they're trying to restore trailers that have had the crap caulked out of them with silly-cone. ....and they still leak because it continues to fail, and then they recaulk, etc etc. Better things are available


Oh, and I have no issues with putting a restrained number of holes in a fiberglass shell. I drilled and riveted to add my awning rail.
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