I am a BAD Mommy

[Gina D.]

For a lot of years, I have praised the virtues and efficiencies of Wave heaters. Since I boondock most of the time, and value every amp hour I have in my battery, I have used Cat heaters forever.

They heat nicely in our small spaces, use no electricity, are unvented, quiet and all around good things if proper precautions are taken (Air flow and ventilation, placement etc)

For the SECOND time since I have been in Quartzsite, out on BLM land fulltiming.. I came home at lunch to find my dogs in a near boiling state. I forgot to shut the heater off before I left.

All the windows go open, dogs get put outside to cool in the near freezing temps here now, and the heater gets shut off.. all the while Mommy is kicking herself and screaming at her stupidity. I can only have nightmares about what would have happened if I was delayed and they were in here longer than they were, or if it were a different time of year when it is cold in the morning but gets warm quickly after.

The only major problem I can see with a Wave heater is the lack of a thermostat. Once the radiant function of the heater warms all objects in the room, it just keeps on going.. almost a "snowball" effect (With a heater? LOL!) and it can get unbearably hot if the heater is not shut off.

Had there been a thermostat, the heater would have shut off on its own when required.

I have been in many rigs that have a "Blue Flame" style heater. They heat the air, much like a furnace, but without a fan (Tho fans are an option) Its a more even heat, like your furnace, yet it is still unvented and uses no electricity. They also come with thermostats.

SOOOO.... Mommy went out and bought one immediately and installed it. (The Wave 6 is sitting in a box and will be up for sale soon)

I REALLY like it. It heats the room the second it is turned on, it reaches a comfy preset temp and then shuts down, only to refire when the temp drops below the set point.

There also appears to be less condensation with it. Even in the dry desert, the cat heater would fog up my windows in just a few minutes.. big drops, where as the blue flame is a light and even condensation that is hardly even noticeable.

The entire trailer now has an even heat vs. the Wave, which warms well in front of it but it took a LONG time to heat the whole rig. It had "Hot and Cold" spots.

The heater also has an ODS sensor. I have never slept with my Wave on and am hoping I can with this one. I will give it a few more burn hours to be safe tho.

It is kinda like a little fireplace as well. Kinda cozy with the lights off.

[DannyH]

Gina, I like the look of the flame. It reminds me of a nice little fireplace. I bet it would give a great glow in the dark.

[Donna D.]

Poor furkids. So, more info needed... actual product name, what did the new one cost, is it free standing, how's it plumbed? Inquiring minds want to know

[Gina D.]

The manufacturer of this one is Pro-Com. There are several different ones, but I bet they are all made in the same place and rebadged. Pro-Com is the original one. Vanguard is another brand name.

It is plumbed just like the cat, a 3/8 nipple is affixed to the bottom of the heater. I put on a right angle nipple and reused my cat heater swivel right angle and stands.

You can find them online for 119 to 149 (Thermostat unit) at Amazon. Just do a search for "Blue Flame Heater". They come in 10k btu (Mine) 20k and 30k.

No fan option is available for the 10k models. You can get all models in a none thermostat version as well.

I DID leave it on the lowest setting last nite. It was a much more comfortable morning when I got up. It kicked on a couple times that I know of, mostly just before dawn when it is coldest outside. The lowest setting is 55 degrees F.

[David and Nancy]

Gina

This may be the item I am looking for. The furnace on my Bigfoot kills the battery in less than 2 nights when it gets cold in the high country. Every time I look at Wave heaters the price and the lack of a thermostat stops me. I have a Buddy heater, but I don't trust it when I'm sleeping and the condensation it produces is really annoying. Do you think a 10,000 btu blue flame would heat a 21' Bigfoot at temps in the teens and 20's? Maybe I should look at the 20 or 30 thousand?

[cpaharley2008]

Gina,
What was the size of your old Wave model vs the newer Blue Flame heater? I'm contemplating a Wave III install in the spring but can still change my mind if the Blue Flame is comparable and has a thermostat.

[Gina D.]

My old Wave heater was a Wave 6, also 10k btu. I rarely used the High setting on it, only when I want quick quick heat in near freezing temps. I used it in my 17 foot Burro and it was also more than adequate for that size space. You should be fine with it in the comparable size of your egg camper.

I am not sure I would try to do a 21 footer in 10k, but it depends on how warm you like it. That said, I think I would die if I turned the 10k one all the way up. It would be WAY too warm for this space.

The 10k will heat up to 300 sq ft. That sort of works for the 21, but the 20k has a fan on it if opted for. It may be better for front to back heating.

Here are the 10k specs.

MD100TBA ProCom Heaters ? ventfree blueflame heater

I am sure you can noodle around and find the others.

[David and Nancy]

I have now checked out the specs and it looks like anything bigger than a 10K would probably be overkill. These things must be popular, several of the suppliers out there have them on backorder right now. Did you find yours at a vendor around Quartzite? We might be over there this winter at some point. It's five below zero in my backyard right now.

[David and Nancy]

Gina
I just pulled up the owners manual for the model heater you got. Two things jumped out at me. One statement was that the pilot light will not operate reliably at elevations above 4500 feet. Nearly everywhere I go is higher than that. Even more disturbing was a warning to never install this heater in a recreational vehicle. I am not sure why since the safety features seem to be the same as in other non-vented heaters. The Wave is sold as an RV heater for example.

Anyway, I may be interested in buying your Wave 6.

[Gina D.]

For Colorado, it may be a gamble to try with the 4500 ft "Limit".. the comment I saw was it *May* cause outages.

I can tell you that the first one I ever saw was operating well at 7500 feet. I hosted a campground near Big Bear, Ca. in the San Gorgornio wilderness, and the other host had one in her rig. It functioned well there. I have lusted for one ever since.

Have no idea if it would work higher.. I suspect you would be doing so.

As for the rec. vehicle install, I suspect it is legal jargon for installers. I work at a motorhome dealership and see them come in with trade ins frequently. I love it when they do, I have heat when working in them!

Sorry, the Wave has already gone to a new home.

[Robert Johans]

This has been an interesting and informative thread. But I almost did not find it 'cuz of the topic title.

[peterh]

We've had good luck with the Wave 3 we have in our 19' Scamp 5er. Gets the trailer good and toasty when set on high, then turned down to low. The Wave 3 is very capable of cooking us out of our trailer when set on high, even on a cold, cold night.

We do use our Wave 3 at night, set on low with one window and our loft vent cracked. Keeps us warm at any altitude.

[Gina D.]

Peter, wasn't it you that had the wave not perform well at altitude? I never experienced it with mine, but the highest it ever went was 7500 feet.

It did fail me once at a lower elevation. The heater kept working, but I was in my 13 ft Burro, the outside temp was in the low-mid teens. Leaving the windows cracked as needed negated any good the heater was doing. The cold air coming in was cooling off the walls, and me, faster than the wave could heat them up. I left it on all nite but was still an unhappy camper.

Heater placement is a big deal with a wave. Then, my 3 was just inside the door, pointing at the front dinette. It was semi warm up there, but I was sleeping on the back bed and absolutely nothing was warming up there.

According to the cheezy little plastic thermometer I stuck outside at 10 pm last nite, it was 28 degrees here. Inside, with the Blue Flame on its low-mid setting, it was 73. I was pretty amazed considering this is a 40 year old sticky with walls that are *Maybe* an inch thick. Its insulated with the pink stuff, but its all window in the back and very drafty.

When I stepped out of my shower last nite, I was very comfy.. no arctic blast in that spot like with the wave. The wave was pointed away from the bathroom. The blue flame sits in the same spot.

At this point, I am giving a thumbs up on the blue flame over the wave, but will wait to see how long my propane tank lasts with it during heavy use. On paper and in theory, it should do better than the wave because it cycles on and off and isn't burning ALL the time. BUT.. practice and reality don't always match spec and theory.. so we shall see.

[Lizbeth]

I'm glad it seems to be working out well. We may be heater shopping if the Bigfoot heater keeps working intermittently as it has on the last couple trips.

[peterh]

Originally Posted by Gina D.

Peter, wasn't it you that had the wave not perform well at altitude? I never experienced it with mine, but the highest it ever went was 7500 feet.

That wasn't the Wave, it was our Portable Buddy "backup" heater. Its ODS feature failed us in Yellowstone, leading to some, er, amusing antics in the wee hours of the morning. We bought the Wave 3 as a result of that trip.

[Markz]

Originally Posted by peterh

That wasn't the Wave, it was our Portable Buddy "backup" heater. Its ODS feature failed us in Yellowstone, leading to some, er, amusing antics in the wee hours of the morning. We bought the Wave 3 as a result of that trip.

Do you have pictures of it installed?

[peterh]

Originally Posted by Markz

Do you have pictures of it installed?

Oddly, no. Have pictures of just about everything else in the trailer, but not that. Now the interior of my trailer is pretty much finished, I figures my next Scamp project should be to re-shoot and post my trailer interior pictures when it comes out of winter storage.

[David and Nancy]

Your story about the Buddy heater reminds me of the drawbacks of trying to boondock at high elevation. I regularly camp from 7000 to 10000 feet and am still looking for creative ways to heat the trailer without drawing down the battery. Like the Buddy, the blue flame heater that Gina bought apparently has high-elevation limitations. My Honda generator has reduced output at high elevation. Lack of sunlight in the spruce and aspen forests make solar charging a challenge, too. So that leaves the Olympian Wave heaters? I can't find an owners manual for these online, but do you know if the Wave has any altitude-related issues? In comparing them to the Pro-Com blue flame heaters, I can't figure out why they cost so much more and yet have much lower BTU output and no thermostats.

[peterh]

Originally Posted by David and Nancy

. . . I can't figure out why they cost so much more and yet have much lower BTU output and no thermostats.

There are really just two ways to build a ductless heater that delivers both heat and combustion byproducts into the room being heated. The Blue Flame units are open flame units that train the flame along an impermeable platen that gets hot and heats by convection (heating a surface within the heater that warms the air as it passes by). Buddy heaters bubble natural gas through a perforated ceramic plate that, instead of creating a traditional flame, creates a combustion face where small amounts of gas emerge from the perforations and burn, creating heat that is reflected off the ceramic face and into the room (radiant heat).

What these two methods have in common is they are simple chemical reactions: propane and oxygen combine and burn freely and randomly, creating a high-temperature flame as well as byproducts that can easily include carbon monoxide.

The Wave 3 heater doesn't create a flame. It uses a platinum catalyst (which is why they're spendy) that grabs a hold of the propane molecules as they enter the heater and holds them rigidly in a way that makes combining them with oxygen orderly and easy. The process releases the same amount of heat as burning with an open flame, but it does it more gradually over a wider surface area. Another difference between the two combustion methods is that open flame heaters can very easily create poisonous carbon monoxide, whereas catalytic systems will only create carbon monoxide ad oxygen levels in the room drop dangerously low.

Both open flame and catalytic heaters use a thermocouple that has to be heated so it will make electricity that keeps the gas valve open. In a catalytic heater the thermocouple is buried in the platinum-impregnated pad of the heater. In BlueFlame and Buddy heaters that thermocouple is placed at a specific distance from the pilot light gas jet.

The neat thing about placing the thermocouple a set distance away from the jet is, under low oxygen conditions, the gas isn't entirely combusted as it exits the jet, and the flame moves up and away from the thermocouple, allowing it to cool.

When you take the heater up to altitude, however, the gas jet emerges at a higher velocity, and the gas starts to combust past the point where the thermocouple is located, which, again, allows the thermocouple to cool.

[Joe Z]

Originally Posted by David and Nancy

So that leaves the Olympian Wave heaters? I can't find an owners manual for these online, but do you know if the Wave has any altitude-related issues?

I have an Olyimpian Wave heater and a pdf file on it so maybe this will help you.
Joe

http://vagabonders-supreme.net/Wave_...User_Guide.pdf

A very thorough forum on olympian wave heater use

Woodalls Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: Olympian Wave Heaters