I need a ground - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-17-2012, 06:12 PM   #15
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Tomorrow I'll tap into a black wire, check it's polarity and then splice with a 12 ga wire and then butt splice into the real small maybe 18 ga wire. That should make everything kosher.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #16
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Solder, shrink tubing, and tape might be a better choice.. Raz
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ed Harris View Post
Some RVs use Black as Hot?
Don't know about the Escape but easy enough to make sure with a meter before committing to it!
Black is always hot. There is a saying to remember whenever you are doing 120V AC wiring that has always stuck in my head, before I ever got into the trade. "Black is hot, white is not".

With 12V DC, the most common convention by far is red is positive, and black is negative. Escape, and most trailer manufactures, use this. There have been the odd exception in the past, and if unsure, a polarity test is advised. I know in lots of marine wiring they use white as positive, and black still as negative. Boaters are weird though.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Black is always hot. There is a saying to remember whenever you are doing 120V AC wiring that has always stuck in my head, before I ever got into the trade. "Black is hot, white is not".

With 12V DC, the most common convention by far is red is positive, and black is negative. Escape, and most trailer manufactures, use this. There have been the odd exception in the past, and if unsure, a polarity test is advised. I know in lots of marine wiring they use white as positive, and black still as negative. Boaters are weird though.
Your first paragraph is correct for house AC wiring.
Your 12V DC is mostly correct. However, Scamp uses house hold wiring conventions. Black is positive and white is negative.

The only real convention followed the biggest percentage of the time is that green is ground (earth type of ground).

The best advice is to always check with meter.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:13 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by P. Raz View Post
Solder, shrink tubing, and tape might be a better choice.. Raz
I saw someplace that you claimed to be an engineer (EE). I make that same claim and disagree with you as does manufacturing, including automotive wiring, truck wiring, etc, etc. A properly crimped connection has been shown time and time again as the better. Soldering has some inherent problems and is more technical than most people think.

My experience is I've seen hundreds of solder joint failures, but I don't recall ever seeing a crimped connection fail. That's after 45 years in electronic manufacturing.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:06 PM   #20
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Wire the lights across the loads

Jim,

If you wire each light across each respective load you will effectively be tied in correctly. At the switch you are picking up the normally off side of the switch that goes hot when turned on. One of the heating pad wires terminates there. This should be 12v+ when the switch is energized. On the heating pads, for them to work properly, the other wire must be tied to a 12v- point. This is where you want to tie the other light lead whenever possible. Don't worry about the wire size you tie into because the lights don't draw enough to be concerned. Any type of crimp connectors will be fine. I hope this helps!

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Old 10-17-2012, 10:54 PM   #21
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"Black is always hot," and that is why witches wear black.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:57 PM   #22
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When there is black and red, red is positive and black is negative. when there is just black and white wires, black is red, meaning it is positive and white is negative.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:02 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
When there is black and red, red is positive and black is negative. when there is just black and white wires, black is red, meaning it is positive and white is negative.
As with many things in this crazy world there are exceptions. In house wiring white is "neutral" and any other color is "hot" including red. You can have white, black, blue, and red in your house or business. My point is you need to be careful and understand the system in use. In trailers you have lots of wire colors, brakes are blue, back up lights are yellow, left turn and brake light are red, with white as negative

It can get really confusing if you aren't careful. A good mulitmeter is your friend.
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Old 10-18-2012, 05:10 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
I saw someplace that you claimed to be an engineer (EE). I make that same claim and disagree with you as does manufacturing, including automotive wiring, truck wiring, etc, etc. A properly crimped connection has been shown time and time again as the better. Soldering has some inherent problems and is more technical than most people think.

My experience is I've seen hundreds of solder joint failures, but I don't recall ever seeing a crimped connection fail. That's after 45 years in electronic manufacturing.
I've seen numerous crimped connections fail. The open ends allow moisture in. Much of the wire available today is not tinned. It doesn't take long for that copper to oxidize. You crimp, I'll solder. Then we'll both be happy. Raz
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Old 10-18-2012, 05:29 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Black is always hot. There is a saying to remember whenever you are doing 120V AC wiring that has always stuck in my head, before I ever got into the trade. "Black is hot, white is not".

With 12V DC, the most common convention by far is red is positive, and black is negative. Escape, and most trailer manufactures, use this. There have been the odd exception in the past, and if unsure, a polarity test is advised. I know in lots of marine wiring they use white as positive, and black still as negative. Boaters are weird though.
This is just not true?

Trust but Verify!

And please don't make me quote the Presidents again!
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:22 AM   #26
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With automobile wiring, hot is various different colours. It may be solid colour or various different striped colours. Ground, however is typically black. Why so? Would it be appropriate to use a similar cenvention in our trailers?

I have a repurposed ambulance that I use as a work truck. In the ambulance wiring, they etched numbers on the wires. The numbers identify the circuit that the wire serves. This etching policy makes it really easy to identify wires for circuits as appropriate. Is there an easy way to "home etch"? I have used label makers from your office supply, but found these not to be near as good. Thoughts?
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:32 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
Your first paragraph is correct for house AC wiring.
Your 12V DC is mostly correct. However, Scamp uses house hold wiring conventions. Black is positive and white is negative.

The only real convention followed the biggest percentage of the time is that green is ground (earth type of ground).

The best advice is to always check with meter.
My first paragraph was referring to AC wiring. When you use the term 'hot' wire, it refers to AC wiring. There is no 'hot' with DC. I think this may be a bit of a cause for confusion.

I think you missed the part where I used the term 'most common convention' referring to red/positive and black/negative, as well as saying to test for polarity if at all not certain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
When there is black and red, red is positive and black is negative. when there is just black and white wires, black is red, meaning it is positive and white is negative.
More common than not with DC wiring using white and black wires, especially in the marine world, black is still negative, and white is positive. Byron saying that Scamp uses black/positive and white/negative is the first time I have heard this convention used, and the first time I have heard of white and black used for DC wiring in an RV. Could be others too I imagine, but my experience with those colours is with boats. Maybe I have led a sheltered life.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:21 AM   #28
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I've seen numerous crimped connections fail. The open ends allow moisture in. Much of the wire available today is not tinned. It doesn't take long for that copper to oxidize. You crimp, I'll solder. Then we'll both be happy. Raz
Totally agree, especially on trailers. Soldered connections are in danger of failing where there is a high frequency vibration like an engine or electric motor that can excite the soldered section of wire into vibrating at its resonant frequency. On a trailer, the biggest issue is water and corrosion.
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