I need a ground - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-18-2012, 08:56 AM   #29
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At the risk of stating the obvious and more for newbies at modifying circuitry, the switch is wired to interrupt the power side not the common side. The theory being that with the switch off, touching any part of the downstream device to ground will not cause a spark (or worse). The ground contact on the illuminated switch is just to power the LED which draws very little current and can be modestly sized.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:07 AM   #30
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Totally agree, especially on trailers. Soldered connections are in danger of failing where there is a high frequency vibration like an engine or electric motor that can excite the soldered section of wire into vibrating at resonance frequency. On a trailer, the biggest issue is water and corrosion.
One must also consider how a solder connection is protected. If you are covering a solder joint with a wrap or two of cheap quality electrical tape, you are asking for trouble. If you are using premium quality heat shrink tubing, you will get better longevity. The "good stuff" usually is double walled and has a self sealing adhesive in it.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:55 AM   #31
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...... If you are covering a solder joint with a wrap or two of cheap quality electrical tape, you are asking for trouble.........

I don't understand what you are saying here. Are you talking about maintaining the conductivity of the electrical connection or are you talking about protecting the wire from flexing and becoming brittle, risking breakage at some point?

In my experience, the soldered joint makes a water tight seal at the junction between the two wires. A covering like electrical tape, shrink tubing or liquid tape serves to keep the splice from being accidentally shorted out and to some extent, supports the wires to prevent mechanical failure. Look at a circuit board. Hundreds of soldered connections, no electrical tape or shrink tubing.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:26 PM   #32
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I don't understand what you are saying here. Are you talking about maintaining the conductivity of the electrical connection or are you talking about protecting the wire from flexing and becoming brittle, risking breakage at some point?

In my experience, the soldered joint makes a water tight seal at the junction between the two wires. A covering like electrical tape, shrink tubing or liquid tape serves to keep the splice from being accidentally shorted out and to some extent, supports the wires to prevent mechanical failure. Look at a circuit board. Hundreds of soldered connections, no electrical tape or shrink tubing.
A circuit board has its own form of protection - the rigidity of the board itself, and the case that goes around the board. Its rare to find a commercial product with a fully exposed circuit board.

My experience with the cheap electrical tape is that the glue tends to loose its strength over time. The tape eventually slides or peels off. Heat shrink is much stronger and longer lasting.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:56 PM   #33
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Ford verses Chevy

This remind me of the Ford verses Chevy discussion. Both sides of the argument are very passionate in their opinions regarding "crimped' and 'soldered" but let's look at this in perspective. Jim is wiring "indicator lights that each draw less and .05 amps". I call tell you for sure that when using a crimped connection in this application that any corrosion that causes a voltage drop with this extremely low current flow will be negligible. What is the worst case scenario??...the light doesn't illuminate...probably only if the wire falls off completely. Most RVs are wired with crimp connections powering the major loads and they seldom fail. These are only indicator lights...)
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:32 PM   #34
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This remind me of the Ford verses Chevy discussion. Both sides of the argument are very passionate in their opinions regarding "crimped' and 'soldered" but let's look at this in perspective. Jim is wiring "indicator lights that each draw less and .05 amps". I call tell you for sure that when using a crimped connection in this application that any corrosion that causes a voltage drop with this extremely low current flow will be negligible. What is the worst case scenario??...the light doesn't illuminate...probably only if the wire falls off completely. Most RVs are wired with crimp connections powering the major loads and they seldom fail. These are only indicator lights...)

Open your computer and find a solder connection on anything put a PC board. Currents are in microamp range.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:33 AM   #35
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Jim said: Tomorrow I'll tap into a black wire, check it's polarity and then splice with a 12 ga wire and then butt splice into the real small maybe 18 ga wire. That should make everything kosher.


I believed Jim was cutting the wire to the heater on the water tank to add the connection there. If so, a bad connection could cause the heater to fail and the water in the tank to freeze. It could very well be that Jim may not have the skills to solder. Most folks who do not work in the field don't. I simply put the idea out there. The way this is suppose to work is that one person states a problem and others suggest solutions. Arguments and in some instances personal attacks chill the process. An array of opinions is desirable. A lack of respect for others is not. Raz

Note-while editing this post the sever took a coffee break and the dog needed my immediate attention. It took a while to complete my thoughts.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:54 AM   #36
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A few years back I intalled a "muffin" fan in the outside refrigerator compartment to facilitate air flow over the coils in hot weather. This year I went to turn on the fan and found that both crimped connections had broken where the wire entered the crimped connector at the switch. I don't offer this as a comment on soldered vs crimped connections but as an observation of a "hard" connection in a vibration prone application. "Hard" being possible with either crimped or soldered connections. My repair will be to replace the crimped connections but include shrink tubing at the ends to try to make the crimped end have a more gradual increase in flexibility. As an alternative, I'll try to wire-tie the connector end of the wiring to something near the switch to lessen flopping around where the wire exits the crimp.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:06 AM   #37
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....... These are only indicator lights...)
I agree with you in this case, for this little light.

But, the most common wiring complaint on this board is for exterior lighting issues. When all is said and done it usually comes down to a poor connection. For the benefit of others, I think that a consistent, robust approach is prudent. And in my experience, soldering is robust.

If you want to use crimp connectors, go right ahead. Just park well off the shoulder, as it can be hard to see you with no tail lights.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:59 AM   #38
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Jim said: Tomorrow I'll tap into a black wire, check it's polarity and then splice with a 12 ga wire and then butt splice into the real small maybe 18 ga wire. That should make everything kosher.


I believed Jim was cutting the wire to the heater on the water tank to add the connection there. If so, a bad connection could cause the heater to fail and the water in the tank to freeze. It could very well be that Jim may not have the skills to solder. Most folks who do not work in the field don't. I simply put the idea out there. The way this is suppose to work is that one person states a problem and others suggest solutions. Arguments and in some instances personal attacks chill the process. An array of opinions is desirable. A lack of respect for others is not. Raz

Note-while editing this post the sever took a coffee break and the dog needed my immediate attention. It took a while to complete my thoughts.
Actually I'm not touching the heat pads wires, they are really thick due to the 12v current draw. All I did was loosen the screw on the switch (escape uses screw connections on their switches, really secure) and slipped my little wire from the led light, crimped to a small connector under the wire and retightened. I did this on the open end of the switch, not the hot end. The black wire will be spliced into one of the existing wires nearby, must be 3 or 4 that are accessible.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:17 AM   #39
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For some reason I find this a fascinating topic. Heaven help me. The propeller on my beanie is near to launching.

Searching the web looking for solder vs. crimp opinions I can find no clear-cut preference. NASA allows crimped connections. So too does the Experimental Aircraft Assn. But then they also allow soldered connections. A common thread appears to be to support the wire near the connection because both connections create a hard spot near the connection that promotes work hardening and subsequent fatigue failures. If I could infer a slight preference it would be for a two crimp connection over solder. One crimp on the bare wire and the second crimp on the insulation as a stress reliever. Your average cheesy crimp connector is a single crimp
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:29 AM   #40
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Actually I just twist the wires together and wrap them with Dollar store electrical tape. I just like to mess with Byron.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:37 AM   #41
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For some reason I find this a fascinating topic. Heaven help me. The propeller on my beanie is near to launching.

Searching the web looking for solder vs. crimp opinions I can find no clear-cut preference. NASA allows crimped connections. So too does the Experimental Aircraft Assn. But then they also allow soldered connections. A common thread appears to be to support the wire near the connection because both connections create a hard spot near the connection that promotes work hardening and subsequent fatigue failures. If I could infer a slight preference it would be for a two crimp connection over solder. One crimp on the bare wire and the second crimp on the insulation as a stress reliever. Your average cheesy crimp connector is a single crimp
Steve

I think the main difference in the recommendations you see has more to do with making a consistent connection than the method used?

The chances are just better that the connection will be reliable from a Crimping tool than by soldering. Again I am not speaking to which one is better but just which is easier to make.

Soldering is a skill that can be improved upon(or denigrated) over a lifetime of practice and there are many different styles and tricks that are seen that differentiate one joint from another even from the same operator.

Crimp connectors and tools have a higher degree of easily repeatable and strong connections (while using the proper tools and connectors for them)and thus are more easy to recommend to the public in general.

There is also a large group of "Old School" techs that will insist that soldering is best as that is the way it has been done since before there were decent crimping options.

Really small conductors are tough to terminate with either method in my experience for a lot of reasons and as I know we talked about the other day,I can't even see the tiny connections anymore well enough to solder them with the confidence I once had.

I think you are on the right track though by using both better connections and some robust mechanical reinforcement too.

I also can not believe you have not considered making your own dry ice right in the "Castle" as you camp?

Ed
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:37 AM   #42
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Tomorrow I'll tap into a black wire, check it's polarity and then splice with a 12 ga wire and then butt splice into the real small maybe 18 ga wire. That should make everything kosher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Actually I'm not touching the heat pads wires, they are really thick due to the 12v current draw. All I did was loosen the screw on the switch (escape uses screw connections on their switches, really secure) and slipped my little wire from the led light, crimped to a small connector under the wire and retightened. I did this on the open end of the switch, not the hot end. The black wire will be spliced into one of the existing wires nearby, must be 3 or 4 that are accessible.
The 12 gauge wire is what misled me. Not many things in a trailer that need that size wire. The heater wires were the logical choice. Raz
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