Installing a Fanless Propane Furnace

[Kurt in BC]

Starting the install of a Wagon Master 5000 (3500 btu) fanless Furnace into my 1970 Boler.

I have a few things I need to consider:

1. Location - next to the bed or next to the ice box. I have seen them in both locations. Next to the ice box is the easiest but still requires moving my electrical panel. Next to the bed is okay, but a little close to blankets.

2. Vent. Its one of those funny ones with a vent inside a larger one. I have to nuy or make one...anyone have suggestions?

3. Propane lines. I am going to run new ones back from the tank with a new regulator. How do these branch off? I am assuming the main line splits INSIDE the trailer - one to stove, one to furnace?

4. What are people using for an outside vent?

5. Carbon Monoxide Detector or Low Oxygen detector. I keep seeing people buying carbon monxide detectors for their trailers.....yet I believe the burning propane does not produce CO only CO2 (carbon dioxide). Would it not make more sense to use a low oxygen detector (CO2 detector)


Pics or suggestions would be great.

[Parker Buckley]

Starting the install of a Wagon Master 5000 (3500 btu) fanless Furnace into my 1970 Boler.


5. Carbon Monoxide Detector or Low Oxygen detector. I keep seeing people buying carbon monxide detectors for their trailers.....yet I believe the burning propane does not produce CO only CO2 (carbon dioxide). Would it not make more sense to use a low oxygen detector (CO2 detector)

Kurt,

If this really is an indirect-fired furnace with combustion on the other side of a heat exchanger, I would be more concerned about CO, which could be leaked into the heated air stream by any sort of crack in the heat exchanger. And I think a propane detector is probably worth installing no matter what kind of heat. I haven't done it yet, but since installing a Wave 3 in our Scamp, I'll have one in there before we hit the road. Actually, I think I've seen reference to them being legally required, but our Scamp has never had one to the best of my knowledge, in spite of having a factory installed propane stove. Maybe I'm wrong on this legal comment, but I'll still be installing one. Good luck with your project!

Parker

[peterh]

If you have this many questions about a gas appliance installation you should probably take the project to an RV Tech and work with him (or her) to figure out what parts of the job you can do, and what parts are best left to the pros.

[Roy in TO]

2. Vent. Its one of those funny ones with a vent inside a larger one. I have to nuy or make one...anyone have suggestions?

4. What are people using for an outside vent?

Do you have the 2 vents (1 inside the other)? I had the outer part made and bought a stock grill vent. Some details and pictures here of my furnace.

[Roy in TO]

Carbon Monoxide Detector or Low Oxygen detector. I keep seeing people buying carbon monxide detectors for their trailers.....yet I believe the burning propane does not produce CO only CO2 (carbon dioxide). Would it not make more sense to use a low oxygen detector (CO2 detector)

CO2 is a byproduct of complete combustion
CO is from incomplete combustion

CO2 can be replaced by O2 in the blood (happens with every breath)
[b]CO kills by binding to hemoglobin inhibiting the CO2/O2 exchange

It makes more sense to me to be detect CO which can kill you.

[Morgan]

Kurt,

This PDF includes installation instructions and clearly shows a coaxial intake and exhaust pipe (pipe in a pipe).

[Kurt in BC]

If you have this many questions about a gas appliance installation you should probably take the project to an RV Tech and work with him (or her) to figure out what parts of the job you can do, and what parts are best left to the pros.

This many questions? These are not all complex questions. They can be answered here simply enough....as most have. I am looking to see what others have in their trailers.

Thank you and keep them coming, most have been answered

Those of you with the furnace next to the ice box...have you found the outer case tends to heat things up in there at all?

[Kurt in BC]

Do you have the 2 vents (1 inside the other)? I had the outer part made and bought a stock grill vent. Some details and pictures here of my furnace.

Yes one within the other. I could make one with standard steel exhaust tubing but would rather find something in tin or already made.

[Roy in TO]

Yes one within the other. I could make one with standard steel exhaust tubing but would rather find something in tin or already made.

The inner is the exhaust and an exhaust pipe would probably do the trick, the outer might just be plain ducting. Mine seems a little heavier than the household stuff today. If you look at this picture you will see two thin rods crossing the opening. The inner is tack welded to those (or in my case sits between them). You will also see a flat piece that extends out to the surface just above the hole. This directs the exhaust outwards before it hits the FG body.

My gas line is a T takeoff from the line feeding fridge from underneath.

As for taking things to the pro's. Unless you have the stuff to make the flares for the gas fittings that is something I would definately consider contracting out. Some locations actually regulate that you do so. There is no reason you can't cut and bend the lines and have everything ready for them to finish the job.

[Raya]

Those of you with the furnace next to the ice box...have you found the outer case tends to heat things up in there at all?

I've been thinking about that -- and the overall location question -- myself (for if I ever find one of those non-fan Boler furnaces).

Here's my list:

Driver's side:
Pros:
1) Already "ugly" with vents for the fridge, so what's one more? - and of course I look at that side less.
2) Exhaust goes out where no-one is typically sitting.
3) The cupboard space is already somewhat compromised by the sink base and drain.

Cons:
1) The heat issue by the fridge (if it is an issue).
2) Standing in front of the sink when it's on might be a bit uncomfortable.

Passenger side:
Pros:
1) I don't tend to stand in front of the closet like I would the sink.
2) No refrigerator issue (if it is an issue, in fact).

Cons:
1) "Ugly" vent on door side, where I look at the trailer more.
2) Hot exhaust (how hot is it?) where people might be sitting under awning (a plus in cold weather?). Fumes in exhaust?
3) Would preclude little folding "bed side" table on closet wall beneath door (saw this idea in Gina's wee Burro and liked it).

I'm sure you've already thought of these, Kurt. I'm just "vocalizing."

Raya

[Kurt in BC]

Fortuantely I have a gas fitter friend to do the flares for me.

The furnace will definitely be on the "sink" side of the trailer...but some are on the side next to the fridge while others sit right below the sink (next to the bed).

Are the lines running into the trailer copper as well or do they transition into rubber lines? I want to redo everything from tank regulator back and have not yet lifted out the stove to see how they did it.

[Kurt in BC]

The inner is the exhaust and an exhaust pipe would probably do the trick, the outer might just be plain ducting. Mine seems a little heavier than the household stuff today. If you look at this picture you will see two thin rods crossing the opening. The inner is tack welded to those (or in my case sits between them). You will also see a flat piece that extends out to the surface just above the hole. This directs the exhaust outwards before it hits the FG body.

My gas line is a T takeoff from the line feeding fridge from underneath.

As for taking things to the pro's. Unless you have the stuff to make the flares for the gas fittings that is something I would definately consider contracting out. Some locations actually regulate that you do so. There is no reason you can't cut and bend the lines and have everything ready for them to finish the job.

Oh I see, so that plate is looking from the outside, in. I assume the littel grill just mounts around it. I will have to get some sheet metal and bend something like that up....Once I find a suitable grill for the outside. I see from the factory manual, it uses something similar.

[Roy in TO]

My lines are copper from the regulator back.

I provided details for the outer grill in the link above. Got mine from special order through home harware. Yours might have it in stock. They are made in Canada.

[Raya]

Kurt,

Oh now something you said above makes sense, and I can see where I mis-read your original post. Since I've seen the furnaces on both sides of the trailer (i.e. driver's side and passenger's side), I read that into your original post (my bad). I wondered why you figured one would be closer to the blankets, but now that makes sense.

Sorry about that!

Raya

[Kurt in BC]

any input from those who have mounted them next to the fridge?