Installing a front dinette while retaining bunks, couch and porta-potti in 13' Scamp"

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Scamper Jim

Bill,

You had to go and ask that didn't you! Now it will be even later before I get to knock off for tonight. Oh well, it's snowing again here anyway. Springtime in the Rockies!

Yes, I used the fiberglass bunks by moving them up and dividing them into their respective sides..........

Ha!

Jim, I'd write that I was sorry to have kept you up....but, the truth is that I'm so greatful to get the very detailed information, with great photos, that I'm not sorry at all!

Well, maybe a tiny bit!

Thank you very much! The information is just what I needed.

At the moment I'm not able to do much because of a bum leg. However, when I'm able to start work on my Scamp I most likely will be asking you many more questions.

It is truely amazing how useful you have made a tiny travel trailer!

Bill

[Scamper Jim]

The modifications for the porta-potti (PP) were done with the objective to find a use for the wasted space in the front left corner of the bunks, and to find a way to raise the PP so it didn't feel like one was crouching over a prairie dog hole when using it. I also used the opportunity to deal with a couple of other issues.

The first photo shows the sliding base used to roll the PP from the storage space. It is made of steel and rolls on heavy duty rollers, not the standard drawer type. I decided to make it because I had the rails and it also keeps the PP in the same position which is important as will be explained below. There is an adjustable table leg fixture on each side of the handle. The legs just move just above the carpeting when rolled out, and then when the PP is in use, the rails flex just enough for them to make contact with the carpet. That stabilizes the tray so that it can't flex up or down, nor try to roll back into the storage area. The PP feels very solid in use.

Photo 2 shows the PP position on the sliding tray in the stored position when I was checking for surrounding clearances. The tray has drop down sides so that it saved as much door overhead clearance as possible. It's another project that required a lot of testing and fitting.

In addition, I wanted to solve a couple of issues that have annoyed me about PPs. The first is that there is no real way of knowing how full the tank was getting, and the other is the need for a venting system due to the expansion of the tank on hot days with it bulging at the seams from internal “gas pressures”. They then being released inside the camper the next time the PP is used, requiring that the valve be opened veeeerrrryyy slowly.

Photo 3 shows the previously unused black tank monitor wires that I ran from the monitor to the PP to address the indicator problem. I drilled two holes in the side of the tank, one for sensor indication of ½ full, and the other for the ground. I figured, hey, what's the worst that can go wrong! The probes are inserted and expanded that same as for any other black or gray tank. The wires are attached with alligator clips that can be quickly and easily detached when removing the PP for “servicing”.

Photo 4 shows the fix I did to address the pressure/venting problem. I figured that as long as I was drilling holes, why not drill one more. I cut a hole with a 3/4” Forestner bit in the back of the PP and hot-melt glued in a nylon fitting. As added insurance I secured it with three stainless steel screws. I attached a 3/8” hose to the barb and ran it back to the storage area where it forms a high loop up to the top of the bottom side of the fiberglass bench and then loops down and passes through a hole in the floor. The hose is also removed from the barb when the PP is “serviced”. The use of the slide out tray keeps the wires and hose in their proper orientation so I don't have to pull the PP out from the storage area and rotate it as with the original method under the center bunk area. Hey, if the big rigs can have a monitor and vent system, why can't I?? So there!

It doesn't show in the first photo, but there were just too many electrical wires getting bunched and secured with just screw caps. I later installed terminal blocks and use one side for all negative wires, and the other for all positive wires. They also got labeled with yellow label tape.

This pretty much brings me to the end of introduction of the mods related to the dinette modification. I hope they are useful to others and generate additional ideas for refinement of them.

Happy camping
Jim

[Bill Nolen]

Jim, one quick question!

Does the sliding PP base have rollers to help it slide out?

You are a man of many talents!

Bill

[Scamper Jim]

Bill

Yes, it is on rollers but much heavier that the type for drawers. I will add that in the post.

Jim

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Scamper Jim

Bill

Yes, it is on rollers but much heavier that the type for drawers. I will add that in the post.

Jim

Thank you Jim!

Bill

[dvrcdlady]

Awesome job on the shower. I have been trying to figure out how to add one similar to this in my 16 foot and you have given me some great ideas! May I ask what you used for the drain pan?

[Scamper Jim]

Linda,

I searched all over and then some to find a pan with dimensions that would fit that space. I was ready to give up and have one custom made, which two companies would do for $75 + shipping. Just in time I came across this site and they had a 20x20 for $32 + shipping. It is made of a very heavy, flexible plastic, not rigid. They claim it is indestructible and it sure feels like it.

It also will not accept a paint. I tried it but it scrapes right off. The paint on the front is there if no one sneezes too close to it.

The one drawback to it is that it is 20 inches long which is the same length as the raised floor area from front to the rear. That's why there is no front covering yet for it. I might make one with a thin piece of aluminum but then I have to put hinges on the back side of it so that it will fold down when the floor is flipped up for the shower. I may just hang a piece of heavy cloth across the front to hide the pan, or maybe just leave it.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/fo...x20x4-1-2-gray

[rdickens]

Nice work, Jim!

I was very interested in all of the details that you shared and any
others yet to come.

Before coming to Scamp Camp 2015 in Sebring, I had just converted
the single bottom sofa cushion to a 3-cushion setup in preparation for
doing very similar things.

I wasn't planning to do the shower part, but I was planning to open the
top of that compartment and make the porta-potti usable right where it
sits. My wife had also expressed interest in the idea of a front dinette.

I just hadn't gotten it done yet.

Attached are pix of my 3-cushion bottom sofa cushion.

Ray

[rdickens]

Actually, without the shower, my intended mod should be much simpler.

I have already built a wooden platform that the porta-potti can sit on to bring it up to
home facility height. That platform could sit over the top of a table post base in the
bottom of that cabinet.

My plan would be to leave the front of the trailer in sofa/bunk-bed mode most of the time.
At night (or when desired), the center cushion and compartment top could be removed
to make the porta-potti usable right where it normally sits in that cabinet.

If the cabinet top was opened and the porta-potti+platform were removed (and stowed
in the tow vehicle or ???), a table post and table top could possibly be set up.

The under-sofa storage compartments would remain available for storing other gear.
That is important to me in a Scamp13 with the 54" bed. Because of the loss of other
storage space with the 54" bed, every cubic inch of storage space extremely valuable!
Simply converting that single sofa cushion to a 3-cushion setup makes it much easier
to get access to those under-sofa storage compartments ... even with some stuff piled
on part of the sofa. 😀

Just my current thinking .....

Eventually, if I get it done as planned, we'll see how it all works out. 😉

Ray







Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

[Scamper Jim]

Ray,

Now I have a better understanding of your proposed project.

After your first post I envisioned you cutting a hole in the center section of fiberglass with a lift-out hatch. Then the porta-pottie lid would be flipped up also and the “party-of-the-first-part” would slide their back bacon through the fiberglass cut-out to drop down and rest on the porta-potti for the “logistical operations”. I could see some complications there.

I see now that is probably not what you have in mind. I am not clear though how the porta potti would still fit in the current space after having been raised to home facility height. There is not much clearance available for doing that, or am I missing something here.

Your having an understanding that your desired objective of preserving as much space as possible after any mods is good for you. It's keeps your project on target.

Jim

[Scamper Jim]

Mike,

I took photos of the shower hanging system. I used the flat type clear Command hooks from 3-M, cut out the area in the Ensolite, cross-hatch gouged the fiberglass with a utility knife, and hot-melt glued the hook to the ceiling. They are fairly inconspicuous and notice them only if looking for them.

The cord is the stretch type used to make bungie cords. Can be bought by the foot at Ace Hdw. The cord can be put up without being precise about individual hangers, but I did put a black mark on the cord for the location of each hook. It keeps tension on the entire shower curtain so there is no need for the numerous hanger hooks.

When finished showering, just unhook it, shake it into the pan, and lay it over the hood of your vehicle or on picnic table, it will be dry in just a few minutes. No worry about mold or mildew in a humid bathroom.

You can raise the left front corner of the pan to chase all the water into the drain in the right rear corner.

I used the white, medium shower liner from W-M. It is thinner, easier and smaller to fold than the regular
plastic shower curtain.

The system is quick and easy, my two criteria for most things any more!

[D Davis]

Great ideas and well done Jim! Thanks for sharing these.

[rdickens]

Jim,

The 3-cushion sofa is/was supposed to make access to the under sofa
storage compartments easier (even with the bunk bed configuration
and some stuff/bedding piled on one side or the other) and facilitate
a possible mod to allow the porta-potti to be used, on some trips,
right in the same spot where it normally travels.

The wooden platform previously used to raise the Dometic Sanni-potti
to "facility height" is/was 4" tall and was intended for use in an outdoor
"privacy tent" or in a corner of the "dance floor" inside the Scamp.

As I'm sure you know, without an adjustable height platform, the most
added height that I could get with the porta-potti in its current spot is
about 2".

Whenever we get a small twinge of 3-foot-itis, it's because we would like
more private indoor OBF (what Dennis Archer calls "onboard facilities")
and more storage space for use on longer journeys.

Moving the porta-potti off of the "dance floor" would also make it easer
to put in a "privacy curtain" between the 54" bed and the porta-potti
space.

Similar to what you did, I had intended to open up that cabinet by
cutting up from the current opening for the porta-potti cabinet door
and then cutting toward the front of the trailer to a spot just aft of
where the sofa back cushion sits. I would then put .5" plywood on
either side of that area to support the fiberglass sofa-bottom fiberglass.
A top lid for that area would also have an attached vertical piece of
plywood which would cover the hole where the old cabinet door was
also and provide support for the lid to that area.

We had a setup like that in our old StarCraft Starmaster 21 (or was it
the Venture?) pop-up tent trailer.

In the pop-up, when the lid was raised (and the attached vertical piece
came up with it), the two pieces of plywood could be secured in the
upright position with a catch mounted on the side of the sink cabinet.
To similarly secure the two pieces of plywood in the Scamp, I had
considered snap attached to cord/cable that could be run around
the top bunk attachment point.

At that point, the porta-potti (sitting on a 2" raised platform) would be
exposed and could be used right in the spot where it normally is stored.

Although we really like most everything about our Scamp13 L1 with the
54" bed, you do lose a little storage space and the 54" bed does extend
an extra 10" into the "dance floor" space.

On a positive note, the 54" bed and bunk beds recently allowed us to
sleep my wife, myself, and 3 grandkids (two 12year old twins [boy+girl]
and one 10yo girl).
We slept 5 in our Scamp13 with 54" bed
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...bed-68650.html

On that same trip, we also registered 25 mpg towing the Scamp at
59 mph. I'm guess it might be difficult to get that same economy
and utility from some of the 16ft trailers. See later segments in the
following thread:
Towing a 16' Scamp with small diesel
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...sel-68781.html

Although we want to keep the bunk-beds capability for some trips, there
will often be trips when it is just my wife and I traveling around. Those
would be the trips where it would certainly be nice to be able to use the
porta-potti in its normal storage spot .... especially on nights (or days?)
where there is major thunderstorm going on outside or we are parked
far far away from a bathroom with flush toilets.

With your creativity, I'm sure you could also envision a way of putting a
table-post base of some sort below the porta-potti platform so that we
could maybe occasionally have a front dinette if we really wanted it.
Right now, we sometimes use a fold-flat portable table for meals where
we are just sitting on the front sofa.

In case you hadn't seen them, pictures of our Scamp interior/exterior
can be found in some of the later segments of the following thread:
Scamp Full Size Bed = Smaller Table Size
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ize-65096.html

We have only had our 2014 Scamp since October of 2013 and we are
still learning how to make the best use of the space available to us.

Sorry this rambled a bit .....

We will see how things work out as future trips unfold.

Ray

[Mike Magee]

Jim, good pictures, thanks. I can see the cords on the other side going to the curtain rod, too.

[Bill Nolen]

Jim, I was wondering if you had a close-up photo of the "H" shaped wooden frane work, that is in the front dinette area, that holds the metal table attachment?

From overall views, it appears that the frame work is constructed from 1" x 4" boards. Is that anywhere close?

Is the top of the "H" frame work glued/screwed to the bottom of the top bunk flange?

Again, I'd like to say you have really done, and are still doing, a great service for the Fiberglass RV members, with your sharing of all the improvements you have made!

Thanks,

Bill

[Scamper Jim]

Ray,

So you are talking about cutting up a Scamp less than two years old??? Do you have any idea the s***storm that is headed your way when your wife finds out about your bright idea. You are likely to wake up some morning with all your power tools in your bed with the electric cords cut off!

Btw, I know Nooothing.

[Scamper Jim]

Bill,

I did use 1 x 4's, not the regular pine ones, but those in the moldings dept. It's a better grade of wood and has rounded edges on it to give it a more finished look.

I didn't have a way to do half-laps, etc, so I used butt joints and glassed it on the back with two long narrow strips of matting, and then screwed on an aluminum angle across the full back also for insurance.

I used construction adhesive on the bottom vertical pieces, and pre-drilled and screwed two long sheet rock screws in from the top of the shelf for the top ends of the vertical pieces. I cut the Ensolite and put in the screws, then allowed the Ensolite to cover the heads again when fully in. You don't even know they are there.

[Scamper Jim]

Diane,

Nice to hear the positive responses to my project. It is also interesting to receive them from females who have seen and commented on many types of modifications or feel more confident taking on their own larger projects.

I may get an ear full regarding that silicone seal thingy from DonnaD, but hey, old habits die hard. I was probably using silicone when she was still kicking slats out of her cradle!

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Scamper Jim

Bill,

I did use 1 x 4's, not the regular pine ones, but those in the moldings dept. It's a better grade of wood and has rounded edges on it to give it a more finished look.

I didn't have a way to do half-laps, etc, so I used butt joints and glassed it on the back with two long narrow strips of matting, and then screwed on an aluminum angle across the full back also for insurance.

I used construction adhesive on the bottom vertical pieces, and pre-drilled and screwed two long sheet rock screws in from the top of the shelf for the top ends of the vertical pieces. I cut the Ensolite and put in the screws, then allowed the Ensolite to cover the heads again when fully in. You don't even know they are there.

Thanks Jim!

One additional question...is the frame-work off-set from the front shell, or is it flush against the shell?

Bill

[Scamper Jim]

Bill,

It is off-set because the middle of the shell is further out than the bottom of the shell. They are not straight up from each other. So they are flush with the shell at the bottom but are about mid-way from the shell at the top shelf. I used a level to get vertical plumb and locate the top location.

Jim