Installing a front dinette while retaining bunks, couch and porta-potti in 13' Scamp"

[Scamper Jim]

I have finished the modifications for the addition of a front dinette while still having the bunks, couch, and porta-potti in a 13' Scamp. I also installed a portable front shower to make it more convenient to use. The photos give a quick view of the five different modes. I have additional photos showing the installation steps and explanation of what I did if anyone is interested.

I started late last Fall and was able to complete it recently with some favorable weather for working outside. It would have been done sooner, but there is nothing like doing and then having to redo things to get it right. Who needs plans, I just had an initial idea of what I wanted to do and built from there. The process is made even more interesting by the fact that nothing is level, straight, square or symmetrical in a fiberglass camper.

Everything is done except for the upholstering of the cushions. If you squint real hard and imagine a rust/yellow-colored fabric that will blend with the old 80's style cushions you will get an idea of the finished look. I will use that color to avoid having to reupholster the old dinette cushions that are now in the permanent bed, and the top bunk cushion that will seldom if ever get used. The red stain on the left front cushion explains where the foam came from for the new style cushions. It was a futon mattress on the bed and got some of the red Punch drink from Wal-Mart spilled on it. It was impossible to remove and I didn't want someone to think I was hauling around Jimmy Hoffa's body, so I cut it up for the new cushions and bought a new one for the bed.

I prefer working with metal, and wood not so much, hence the fabrication of the porta-potti sliding tray, and top bunk brackets. Perhaps someone will have some ideas for refining the modifications. They have been road-tested and work for me. Btw, can I interest anyone in making new curtains for me??

Jim

[Jon in AZ]

Wow! I'm impressed, Jim. Who says you can't have it all! Where does the water for the shower come from? Is it heated? How does the shower pan drain?

[Scamper Jim]

Hi Jon,

Yes, the water is heated, either by solar or using a Zodi. I will copy my earlier post with some edits showing the system as it existed earlier for those who may not have seen it. I will then show and explain the new system in a following post.

Usually I am able to use solar water heating bags to produce the hot water used for the shower. However, I use a portable Zodi water heater to heat the water when the days are cold, cloudy, or I wasn't able to set out the bags early enough to get the water hot if I drove for a long period of time that day.

One significant drawback to a portable hot water heater is that when you shower, first getting wet and then turning off the water at the head while soaping up, you will get hit with very hot water when you open up the shower head again to rinse off. That is because, while stopped, the water was held in the hot coils and gets very hot as it has nowhere else to go. If that water is held on the coils for even a minute or so, you will feel like you are getting cooked for a while when you open the shower head again to rinse off. You can reduce the problem by remembering to direct the head away from you until the water is cooler again.

Stopping the water may be fine when getting hot water to wash dishes or if the water is constantly running while washing something, but not good if it will be hitting you after being allowed to heat in the coils for a while. Also, if you leave the shower run while soaping up to avoid that problem, you will use up more of your water supply and also fill your gray water tank sooner.

I solved the problem by making a system that heats the water in the solar bag, and then I use the water from the bag to shower, not using it directly from the heater.

Photos of the setup show the solar bag hanging from a bracket, the side access door, the 12v water pump mounted on the side of the water tank, and the Zodi heater hanging from the camper. The white water line at the bottom of the bag goes to the 12v water pump, a black line leads from the other side of the pump to the heater, then another black line leads from the heater to the top of the solar bag to return the heated water.

It is important that the pump is "On" to get water to the heater before it is lit. That is very important otherwise, if the coils are heated before water is flowing through them, they will produce flash steam when water does reach the hot coils and you could seriously get burned.

Once the water is circulating the Zodi is lit and the pump left for the water to continue heating and circulating until it reaches the desired temperature. Then the heater is disconnected, the bag is sloshed side to side a couple of times to evenly distribute the temperature of the water in the bag and it is then ready to shower with. The water is at a consistent temperature throughout the shower, no hot or cold interludes to be surprised by.

To hang the Zodi from the camper, I removed the handle and used the same type of bracket used to hold the top of the rock shield on the front window. I put spacers on the top and bottom to hold it out from the camper.

The last photo shows the heater and propane tank stored in the space. The propane tank has to be removed when stored, otherwise it can vibrate loose and lose all the gas in it.

[Ian G.]

Great job Jim. I love how you have made the area multi-purpose

[kootenaigirl]

That is amazing.
I have a feeling this mod is going to be talked about for a long time to come. Love it.

[Mike Magee]

Where does the top bunk / seat back go when the area is a dinette? The first 3 pictures don't show it, so you must remove it and put it somewhere, right?

How is the shower curtain suspended?

[Scamper Jim]

Update to initial photos:

I don't use the small orange motor any more. I replaced it with a Flowjet pump. It is very quiet. I also moved the setup to the front of the camper and installed an access compartment with a 3-way valve to direct water to either the shower, or to the Zodi to pre-heat the water. Photos of the new inside configuration for the shower and plumbing are also included. I don't know how to write text onto the photos, but you can see my description by putting the cursor on each photo and it will give a description.

New shower system:

The design and installation of the shower was the most complex part of all the modifications. The first photo shows the new placement of the solar bag at the front right corner of the camper and hose attached to the shower fitting in the compartment. The Zodi heater hangs just to the right of it from a bracket screwed to the belly band.

Photo 2 shows the access compartment that has the nozzle to the pump and the 3-way valve to divert water to the Zodi if it is needed to heat the water.

Photo 3 shows the shower water pump just inside beneath the right bunk and the inside of the access compartment.

Photo 4 shows the shower head stored in it holder. The shower hose runs from the shower water pump across the front bottom of the camper and forms a large loop under the left front bunk. It them goes to the shower head shown stored in its holder.

Photo 5 shows the shower control panel above the front window. To use the shower, the head is moved from its holder to the pin at the right on the panel. The loop of hose under the bunk allows for the hose to be moved up into position. The switch on the left controls the shower water pump, and the switch on the right controls the shower drain pump.

Photo 6 shows the shower drain (top view) in the indestructible plastic pan . It starts as a 1/2” threaded fitting with a hose barb on the other end. I formed the top so that it conforms smoothly to the bottom of the pan. The rough part to the pan and the fitting is to help the hot-melt glue adhesion.

Photo 7 shows the shower drain (bottom view) More glue is added. It is very tight and solid.

Photo 8 shows the 5/8”ths wide, 9-inch long slot cut in the floor to allow the pan to be slid forward. That allows full height headroom. No hunching over.

The shower is 20” x 20” at the pan, and about 24” x 30” at the top. That allows plenty of elbow room so no touching against cold plastic. I used magnets to secure the side of the curtain. Once one is lined up, they all click into place so I don't have to bend over and secure the ends. There are also 6 large magnets with large washers in each of the four corners and two to close the curtain. They keep the curtain in place without any leaks onto the floor.

Photo 9 shows the shower pan drain in place from the bottom underside. I did not want a P-trap hanging down to get caught on stuff, so I used a self-priming Flowjet pump located in the rear right bunk to drain the water to the gray water tank.

Photo 10 shows the in-line drain filter. There is a large loop of hose from the drain fitting to the filter that allows the pan to be moved in the slot without kinking the hose.

Photo 11 shows the drain leading from the filter back along the frame. It enters the camper right behind the wheel well at an angle to avoid 90-degree angles as much as possible. The blue hose is from the irrigation department of Lowes. It is 18 inches long and has a protective tube over the hose that is used when passing through the opening and going to the drain pump.

Photo 12 shows the drain pump in the rear right bunk. It then pumps the drain water to the fitting on the right that leads down to the gray tank. I don't like having motors exposed to the elements and road grime so I located it inside the camper. The pump has plenty of vacuum to self-prime and drain the water from the shower pan. Since it is higher than the hose, there is always some water remaining in the line that acts as a P-trap.

I have reached the limit for photos in this message, so will post the last four in the following one.

[Scamper Jim]

Last 4 photos showing drain system back to pump.

The photo doesn't show it, but there are two clips under the door area to support the hose.

An idea I got from a posting is to catch the initial cold water that comes out of the shower into a container. Then pour it into the porta-potti. It saves not having to pump in water from the reservoir, and also reduces the amount of water going into the gray tank.

The rolls of wires that show in the last photo are for the Monitor system that go from the panel to the gray and fresh water tanks. I never got around to feeding 40 feet of wire through the hole and cutting them off at the tank sensors. One of these days!

[Scamper Jim]

Hi Mike,

You are correct, the top bunk is removed during the day and stored next to the camper, or can be left home if the grand kids are not along.

The first photo shows it in the upright position. Note that because the fiberglass bunks have been raised about 6.5 inches, and with the couch/top bunk now resting on top of the seat cushions instead of folding down behind them, the top bunk is now about 10 inches higher than before. The kid in the top bunk lost that much headroom, but if you don't point that out to him, he may never know if he wasn't in it before. If he does notice, just tell him he must have grown!! The kid in the lower bunk loses only 6 inches.

That creates a problem. The support poles are now too short when attached as before to keep the top bunk level. To solve that, you can see in the photo that when the bunk rests on the top of the poles, it is level. Therefore, metal pole bases, or whatever Scamp calls them on both the top of the fiberglass bunk and the bottom of the top bunk should be used to keep the poles in place, or make longer poles with the welded loop to go over the screw.

Photo 2 shows the top bunk mounting brackets bolted to the front wooden rib. Large fender washers are used on the top and bottom of the bolt. If still concerned about safety, the bracket can be bolted to the front of the camper shell. But there is already more steel and aluminum in the brackets than is in the four screws holding the hinge to the rib currently.

Photo 3 shows a close-up of the top bunk bracket.

Photo 4 shows the top bunk latch hook. They actually are called a “Bunk Latch” and are available through RV catalogs for about $7.00 each.

The corner has been cut out of the hinge so that fingers can be put in the latch to make it easier to tote it in and out of the camper. I found it is easiest when moving it in or out to bring it in and then lay it flat on the lower bunk, then fold in the right end if you have a screen door. Then raise it to vertical position and the latch pins will be very close to the holes in the brackets.

Photo 5 shows the bunk latch hooked in the bracket. They have a friction lock to hold the pin in position when the handle is folded down so it can't slide back out.

I will address your question regarding the support of the shower curtain after I get some photos, probably tomorrow.

Jim

[Bill Nolen]

Scamper Jim, What a great job you are doing!

I just have a basic question. Are the two seats in your front dinette made of plywood or did you modify the fiberglass lower bunk into two seats?

I read above that you raised the fiberglass seats, but I want to be sure!

Bill

[Scamper Jim]

Thank you kootenai girl, it would be nice to think that something will be of interest and use to FG owners after I am gone. Ideas are immortal, even though we aren't.

[Donna D.]

Neato, absolutely neato! Isn't it fun to mod an all molded trailer that works perfectly for you! SWEET

[Scamper Jim]

Thanks Donna,

It's very nice hearing that from you. I take it as high praise from someone who has probably seen many types of modifications that have been made. While it was fun and challenging to do, it's just as nice that others can benefit from it also.

[Christian in FL]

Originally Posted by Scamper Jim

Thanks Donna,

It's very nice hearing that from you. I take it as high praise from someone who has probably seen many types of modifications others have made. While it was fun and challenging to do, it's just as nice that others can benefit from it also.

Hi Jim, this is an incredible mod. I have gotten some great ideas here. I would be happy to make you some curtains is you send me measurements. Nothing fancy, maybe you'll have a better idea once you recover your cushions. Let me know.

Sent from my C6530N using Fiberglass RV mobile app

[Scamper Jim]

Bill,

You had to go and ask that didn't you! Now it will be even later before I get to knock off for tonight. Oh well, it's snowing again here anyway. Springtime in the Rockies!

Yes, I used the fiberglass bunks by moving them up and dividing them into their respective sides. They fit real close but still have about an inch space on the bask side of the panels between the front of the camper. That is not a problem though as it leaves room to move the shower hose. I painted them with Rustoleum white Appliance paint. It leaves a hard, easy to wipe, gloss surface.

First I removed the existing bunks with all their rivets and screws. After setting the bunks on top of the raised section of the floor, I pushed them to the right to find the best position and fitting and then marked where the edge of the raised floor met the front edge of the fiberglass. I then pushed the bunks to the left and marked for the same thing. While nothing is square, even the bottoms of the bunks, I used the bottom mark and put a spirit level on them to get a perfect vertical mark, and then went back and marked the back side along the wall. As long as the three marks are each about 22 inches apart (the width of the dropped floor), the cutting of the center portion will be pretty square.

I went outside and placed a large box fan to my side and used an angle grinder with a metal cutoff disk to cut the fiberglass. Slick as snot on a door knob. Produced a very straight line and sliced through anything in its way.

I marked the bunks so the sides would be flush with the raised floor. One of the reasons for doing so is because there is very little space left between the shower pan and any new plywood side panel. This however means that there can not be a knob on the porta-pottie door as it would interfere with the raising of the false floor, and a groove has to be formed along the edges to accept the dinette table. If you choose to set the sides of the bunk back from the edge, then you can just put in a supporting strip at the top to support the table. That was the most uncertain part of using them instead of starting from scratch with plywood. Besides, it saved not having to junk them out.

These are photos of the steps I used to build the new style bunks.

Photo 1 shows the right bunk being reinforced. It is absolutely necessary as the sides flex and would break if not reinforced. Strips of 1” x 2” wood were also glassed in around the base of the bunk so they could be screwed to the floor the same as the rear bunks.

Photo 2 shows the left bunk being reinforced. Because of the porta pottie's height, there is only a narrow piece of fiberglass above the door. I used additional layers of fiberglass matt to reinforce that area. Along with the aluminum angle over the door, there is plenty of support. I am on the heavy side and when testing and using additional stress, there was no flexing, cracking or bending at all, nor shifting of the bunks.

Photos 3 and 4 show the spacers that I used to support the back side of the bunks against the camper walls. I didn't feel like removing the old wooden rib, nor forming and glassing in a new rib, so I placed spacers the required height on the old one to make the back of the bunks level with the front and to secure them in place. The tops of the spacers have boards that are contoured with the side of the camper and a single screw drilled sideways in them along with some construction adhesive keeps them in place. It is not necessary to support them for lateral movement as the new bunks are fastened to the floor which prevents any movement. The spacers just have to support the back fiberglass vertically.

Photo 5 shows the right bunk being test-fitted, one of a hundred times, after being cut and the side enclosed. You can also see how I formed the side edge for the dinette table cutting back the side edge and glassing in 1”x 2”'s along it. Any spaces were later filled with paste fiberglass and shaped as desired. I also cut in the front access door at that time.

[CBinID]

Jim, you're a magician. You've given me some great ideas for mods. One question--the external accesses--how did you cope with the curvature of the Scamp sides when putting in a flat opening panel?


Cathy

[Scamper Jim]

Some miscellaneous comments regarding the cushions, table, etc.

The new center cushion is not one single large, 22”- wide one, but rather consists of two 11”-wide ones that will have a 3/8th” plywood bottom to them. That is for two reasons. First, when in the bunk or couch mode, the wood will support the cushion over the cut-out area in the corners of the dinette table and not have a soft area. Second, when in the dinette mode, a cushion will be placed vertically on each of the side walls to serve as backrests while dining.

The dinette table is mounted to the front wall using a Table Wall Mount Support system. It's about $15 for a 30” section. I reversed the brackets so that the larger, outside section is screwed to the end of the table, and the smaller inside section is screwed to the wall. This makes it easier when attaching the table as you can just rest the table on the wall section, lift up the front of the table a little and the section lock together. You don't have to lift the table up into the wall section.

The system also allows for the table to be shifted to either side for easier sliding in and out. As can be seen in an earlier photo and the photo below, it is currently shifted to the right about 3 inches. I prefer to sit on the left side so that I can look out the door which is usually more interesting than looking at the kitchen counter, and also I can use the stove top and window rib as arm rests. The new arrangement also allows one to see out the front window very comfortably as your eyes are slightly half way above the window.

The photo below shows the support system.

The leg is collapsible by pressing a lever in front of the leg. I considered making the leg go back at an angle to keep it out of the way of your feet, but that would mean having the leg extending back further when it is folded. That results in it hitting the front of the camper and having to move the whole table forward and extending over the front edge. Also, all the force from weight on the table will be downwards, not trying to force the table forward and pulling against the wall support if the leg was at an angle.

In the second photo you can see two metal L brackets placed upside down on the two back boards just above where the table sets when in the couch mode. They are there because when sitting on the front end of the table with the sections cut out, the table wants to pivot and the back flip up. To prevent that, the brackets were installed to catch on the back end of the table and keep it from lifting.

One last thing, the black box setting on the window ledge is the controller for the solar panels. Last Black Friday there was a company that had a price that just made me get into solar much sooner than I expected. So far it has recharged the battery very well and usage is virtually nil with the complete conversion to LED bulbs.

[Scamper Jim]

Hello Lisa,

Thanks for the offer, I will keep your information for when I am ready for them. They would be very simple, just sew around the edges and leave some at the top to insert the rod. Just name your price.

Ian G asked and I have given him permission to do a write-up of my modifications with my photos for his Boler-related web site. It will be a little bit yet until I have covered all aspects related to the mods. I imagine he will tweek the information if necessary for adaptation to Bolers.

Since you have an earlier Boler, you may have the type with separate front bunks that have the indented ledge already formed into the top side of them. Wish I had a pair of them, would have saved a ton of time and work in modifying mine. Those front bunks could be worth some real money!

[Scamper Jim]

Hi Cathy,

Thank you for your feedback and interest in the project.

When I installed the access doors, I first tried to find the flattest area as possible and go from there. If there was still some space due to curvature, I drill holes in the frame of the door into the fiberglass about every 3 inches apart using a 1/8th" drill bit.

I then remove the frame and apply a small bead of silicone around the inside of the frame edge. It does not need to squeeze out or anything, just enough to give a seal around the opening in the fiberglass.

I then re-insert the door and drive 1" sheet rock screws with a course type thread into each of the holes in the four corners, and all holes in the area where there is space between the frame and the fiberglass. When I get to the area with the greatest space, I draw the screws in tighter and move among the others in that area until I have drawn the fiberglass in as close as possible without distorting the door frame. The screws are very good as holding and drawing in the thick fiberglass so go slow.

Check the operation of the door periodically to see that it doesn't bind anywhere due to a distorted frame. If it does, back off the screws a bit and keep doing it until there is a good fit.

When it looks as good as you think it can get, then remove one of the screws in the area of deflection and insert a 1/8" x 5/8" pop rivet. Push the tool as hard as possible against the frame and tighten and cut the rivet. The long shank rivets can get a good grip on the fiberglass and can draw and hold it very well. Do the same with each of the other sheet rock screws one at a time until all the holes have pop rivets in them.

If you are not in any hurry for it to look pretty, you can leave the sheet rock screws in for a few months which allows the fiberglass to relax and form better. Then do the pop rivet step as described above. You can see in my photo showing the rear access door, that the sheet rock screws were still in the frame. They have since been replaced with pop rivets and it resulted in a real nice clean-looking job.

If there is any small space remaining after the installation, you can either ignore it as the frame is sealed against water by the silicone, or you can put a bead of white, paintable silicone in the space and smooth it with your fingers. It will look like the fiberglass and frame match exactly.

[Radar1]

Incredible modification!