Is this the future?

[Per Walthinsen]

Truma - VeGA fuel cell

[Terry G]

Interesting, but what do they mean by "liquid gas"? It could be either LPG or gasoline. In any event, it's easy to put up a webpage but difficult to deliver a product.

[SherryNPaul]

Probably butane and/or propane.

Truma also makes some amazing trailer moving systems...remote control, etc. Makes our EZ Tug seem so obsolete.

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Terry G

Interesting, but what do they mean by "liquid gas"? It could be either LPG or gasoline. In any event, it's easy to put up a webpage but difficult to deliver a product.

The technical specifications states butane or propane as fuel.

[james kent]

....is this someones update or mod? Maybe they could shed a bit more light on the subject.

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by james kent

....is this someones update or mod? Maybe they could shed a bit more light on the subject.

It looks to be a source for charging your battery. The equivalent of 250 watts or 20 amps @ 12v 24 hours per day (6000watt/hours) as long as you have enough propane. That works out to around 500 amp/hrs per 24 hours.

What they don't say is the cost. So far, all the propane based fuel cells I've seen are in the many thousands of dollars each range. I also don't know what their "100 g/h" propane use rating is - gallons? grams? If it is grams which makes the most sense, a 10 lb tank of propane would last around 45 hours at full load.

[Per Walthinsen]

I'm pretty sure it means 100 grams/hr it being a German manufacturer and all.

Since my two ordinary tanks work out to a total of 17.2 kg usable propane that would work out to about 172 hrs at full tilt. I believe the unit automatically adjusts output to adapt to the level of charge in the battery, so the real-world camping output necessary would be a whole lot longer. In mine it would be weeks and weeks of fulltiming, I would guess (especially when augmented by a solar panel).

I know of no one who has tried this, and I think it is not generally available at this time, but eventually it will be. Cost will probably be astronomical, at least at first.

For me it would not be much added weight to the trailer, since I use two group 31 batteries and would probably ditch one of them for obvious reasons. A decent filter to make sure the propane is clean is likely necessary. If the cost would ever be reasonable I would likely be all over this one.

[SherryNPaul]

Thanks,Per, for posting the link. A silent fuel cell, reasonably priced, would be far preferable to a generator, even our fairly quiet Honda 1000 which we carry as backup to solar. I'm sure we'll see more innovation in this area, which should drive down costs (eventually).
Sherry

[Andrew Gibbens]

Originally Posted by SherryNPaul

A silent fuel cell, reasonably priced, would be far preferable to a generator, even our fairly quiet Honda 1000 which we carry as backup to solar.

I've seen one comment in the UK that these fuel cells aren't silent, just quiet - it was described as being no noisier than a loud air conditioner. But that was a prototype so production models may be quieter.

I suspect "reasonably priced" may be a hurdle too far for a fuel cell. "Less than the cost of ten generators" might be a good target....

[SherryNPaul]

Well, Andrew, the noise level you describe would certainly be disappointing in a device with relatively few mechanical parts.
I'm certain the initial cost would be high, as in so many other new systems.
We'll have to keep a long-distance eye on it, and see how it works out.
Thanks for the info.
Sherry

[GeorgeR]

Diving a little deeper into the Trauma fuel cell device. It is rather complex. Processing LPG requires catalyst (I think it is Rhodium – Rh) which could easily be poisoned with dirty fuel. I had personal issues with dirty LPG plugging my LPG plumbing with a yellow gooey. Inside processes are at 750 degree C (1382 F). I will wait.
http://www.fctedi.eu/symposia/fqaspects/organizercontact/090910_7_HT_3_Kolb_Compact_Fuel_Processor.pdf
http://archivos.labcontrol.cl/wcce8/offline/techsched/manuscripts%5C60wfwe.pdf
George.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye

I also don't know what their "100 g/h" propane use rating is - gallons? grams? .......

Grams for sure. A bit of triva to keep in mind when purchasing products made outside of the USA is that the US is the only industrialized country in the world that does not use metric. There are actually only 2 other countries besides the US that don't use metric - Liberia and Burma.

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Carol H

A bit of triva to keep in mind when purchasing products made outside of the USA is that the US is the only industrialized country in the world that does not use metric. There are actually only 2 other countries besides the US that don't use metric - Liberia and Burma.

If other countries think the metric system is so good, where is the metric time? There should be 10 seconds in a minute, 10 minutes in an hour, 10 hours in a day, 10 days in a month and 10 months in a year. We already have 10ths of seconds, decades, centuries and millennia. I would guess that most people use time more than any other type of measurement but all those metric countries just ignore it.

If I remember correctly the meter was based on 1/10,000 the distance from the equator to the north pole, then they found out later that they calculated it incorrectly, but they did not change the meter. The only positive thing the metric system really does is make math a little easier.

[Cyndi B.]

The idea was proposed but abandoned.

[Carol H]

Yup Cyndi it was. From what I understand the last time it was seriously looked at was about 110 years ago. :-) Long before many counties switched over to the metric system. What ever the issues with metric time are they don't impact the system of weight and volume.

Andy I agree it does make the math easier but I would suggest that there are actually a few more positives. The big one being global standardization which in itself can be a big time saver. Just ask a project engineer about that. I worked outside of NA on projects and I was often asked when the US was going to go metric so the engineers could save time by not having to recalculate specs from the US. Can't tell you how many hours I have seen wasted when a piece of equipment breaks down in another country and everyone is in place to fix it but its discover the bolt or part is not metric and they have to go off in search of the right tool/part. Funny enough I also avoid buying US published cook books that do not include the ingredients in metric. Takes the fun out of cooking if one has to waste time doing math!

I actually don't have an issue with the US not going metric, I just look at it as one of the big wonders of the world. :-)