LED lights in Original light sockets

[Gerry]

I've been thinking about replaceing the lights in my 13ft Boler with LED lights just to save battery life.
Has anyone done this for this reason and what were the results?
I have found these lights at Super Bright LEDs:
http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs...s/1156-x30.htm
The wife is a stickler about keeping things as original as posible she wants to keep the cheap original light fixtures and just change the bulbs.
Again has anyone tried these bulbs. I think they are too deep to fit in the fixture but with a little hole drill in the original light cover it will fit but again I do not want to order these if the light is not going to be bright enough so that the reason for asking
Gerry

[Rob S.]

These will work but you will change the distribution pattern of your light. The LED's in general are much more directional than a standard auto bulb. You will have better results with this this product from the same company http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/pcblamp.htm still directional but more lights so you will have higher output.

To clearify "directional", say you replace your center celing light. You will have about a 24" bright white circle of light on the floor that fades off quickly. It will light the room but will be brightest directly under it.

[Brian B-P]

About directionality: I notice in the Superbright specs that the bulb-style units have a "viewing angle" of only 16 to 35 degrees: that means a narrow cone of light, like a flashlight. The PCB (printed circuit board) alternative lists a 100-degree viewing angle, which is more like a household lamp with a shade. I agree with Rob that the PCB style seems much more suitable, although you have to mount the little board in the light fixture, not just insert it into the socket.

Then there's brightness: for total light output, I don't think the PCB-W24 could be bright enough to be very useful to me on only one watt (12V x 0.085 amps) of power; I have 1-watt, 3-watt, and lower powered LED flashlights, and with a wide distribution I'm sure I would want at least the 1.5 watts of the PCB-W36 model. For comparison, the bulbs in my stock fixtures are 14 W incandescents; LEDs are more efficient, but not likely 14 times better!

[Byron Kinnaman]

About [b]directionality: I notice in the Superbright specs that the bulb-style units have a "viewing angle" of only 16 to 35 degrees: that means a narrow cone of light, like a flashlight. The PCB (printed circuit board) alternative lists a 100-degree viewing angle, which is more like a household lamp with a shade. I agree with Rob that the PCB style seems much more suitable, although you have to [b]mount the little board in the light fixture, not just insert it into the socket.

Then there's [b]brightness: for total light output, I don't think the PCB-W24 could be bright enough to be very useful to me on only one watt (12V x 0.085 amps) of power; I have 1-watt, 3-watt, and lower powered LED flashlights, and with a wide distribution I'm sure I would want at least the 1.5 watts of the PCB-W36 model. For comparison, the bulbs in my stock fixtures are 14 W incandescents; LEDs are more efficient, but not likely 14 times better!

When comparing LEDs to incandescents wattage is a very poor comparision. The only real way is to compare lumens.

Geek explaination of why wattage is not a good comparision.

1 LED with dropping resistor set for 20ma of current through the LED = .02 x 12 = 0.24Watts. 6 LEDs in series with dropping resistor set for 20 ma of current through the LEDs. Wattage is exactly the same. The difference is where heat (watts) is being disapated. In the first case most the heat (watts) is disapated in the dropping resistor, in the second case most of the heat is disapated in the LEDs and you get 6 times the light.

Conclusion;
The configuration and how many LEDs determine the amount of light output, and the amount of total current drawn. Key word here is configuration.

[Rob S.]

I would deffinitely go with the 36 led board. To mount it, its just a matter of adding a velcro tab on the back of the board and the middle of the lamp housing reflector. I agree with the wattage comparison shortcomings. Typically when I am looking at alterantive lighting sources, I focus on the Total Luman output. More lumans = more light

[Gerry]

I would deffinitely go with the 36 led board. To mount it, its just a matter of adding a velcro tab on the back of the board and the middle of the lamp housing reflector. I agree with the wattage comparison shortcomings. Typically when I am looking at alterantive lighting sources, I focus on the Total Luman output. More lumans = more light

I'm a plumber, not an electrician so GEEK-OID that I am on the subject, am I correct to assume that to get the same light on my dinette table, I would need LED lamps that are going to suck out the same amount of energy from my battery .
I was once going to refinace my home, with another bank, and I said if you can save me 1 penny a month off my payments I would do it, the banker couldn't find a way to make my payments lower and still had the nerve to ask if I wanted to do business . I didn't deal.

[Byron Kinnaman]

I'm a plumber, not an electrician so GEEK-OID that I am on the subject, am I correct to assume that to get the same light on my dinette table, I would need LED lamps that are going to suck out the same amount of energy from my battery .

No.

Energy sucked from your battery will be a whole lot less with the same light. However, it will appear different. The color of the light will be closer to blue where incandescent is closer to red.

[Gina D.]

My entire trailer is lit by LEDs and Cold Cathodes.

I have 24 led domes in a "4 corner" pattern (1 Dome on each side of the ceiling, and front to back) and they provide more than adequate lighting for the rig.

I also have drop in bulb replacements for my standard fixtures. These also do a more than adequate job of area lighting.

I recently spent a LONG time in one spot, with hook ups. I have the incandescant bulbs and fixtures that came with the trailer, and I swapped them out so that I would have the warmth of the yellow hue, (With all the battery charging power I had/needed, why not?) but I actually switched back to the LEDs. I have become accustomed to the blue hue and it is less harsh on the eyes, not to mention... cooler.

The load is negligable. I actually had concerns about boiling the battery with the trailer plugged in for so long with effectively no draw on it. (What each dome draws is hardly a challenge for a battery in good condition, and no, I do not have, or want, a convertor)

It was cold enough during the day that I could unplug the trailer and the fridge stayed cool, so thats what I did a few times. I do not have a smart charger. There was no need to run the propane for the fridge.

It's amazing that the blue started out as a trade off, and is now a preference.

Here is a link to my lighting stuff

[Brian B-P]

Byron is right, of course, about the difficulties of using power consumption as an indication of brightness. The problem is that very few LED lamp suppliers provide real light output information (such as total output in lumens), so we have only the power consumption as a rough guide to the best possible output. I find this ironic, since ordinary light bulbs (incandescent or compact fluorescent) in the hardware store usually have lumen output listed on the package (here, anyway).

To get even geekier from Byron's explanation: the dropping resistor is used to regulate the operation of the LEDs. If you had a nicely controlled power supply, you could run your LEDs without any resistor; with real power supplies a resistor is routinely added so that if the LEDs draw more current (due to higher supply voltage, temperature changes, whatever...) there is more voltage dropped by the resistor (and thus available for the diodes) to restrain that current draw. Resistors are also used just as the cheapest way to match the specific voltage requirements of a set of LEDs to a supply of a higher voltage.

The reason this matters is that when power consumption is quoted for LED lamps, it is usually for the LED itself under some specific condition; how much power it takes and how much light it puts out as installed in the lamp (flashlight, RV fixture, etc...) will depend on several factors such as power supply voltage, series/parallel LED configuration, and regulating devices such as resistors. I doubt my "3 watt" LED flashlight actually uses that much power, because it is driven by two AA NiMH cell (nominally only 2.4V between them and in practice less than 3V) so 3 W would be more than one amp, which they could only supply for a couple of hours.

So in the end, don't depend on rated power (wattage), but it beats nothing and is better than counting LEDs. Also, unless the regulation design is really unfortunate, the LED lamp will be more efficient than any incandescent, as Gina has found. All I'm suggesting is to "go big" for useful operation on what should still be low power consumption.

[Chuck-H]

Being totally geeklesssss, I only figured out that more lumens mean more light.
We are using two of the 36 LED panels in 2 seperate lights and found we got more light in our Casita, by going to the 'optical' lenses which are clear with a round magnifier.
Just read on one of the Casita forums that someone had soldered two of the 36 led panels together for a very bright reading lite!
Better half is not a fan of the bluish effect the LEDs have, so chooses her incandescents but the 36 LED panels are fine for me to read by at the dinette.
Plan is to convert to all LEDs (but one for better half to read by) inside and out including running,brake and tail lights.
Happy New Year to ALL!! chuck h.

[Steve L.]

I have two of the 36 LED Superbright LED units in the trailer but haven't had a lot of luck with them. Multiple LEDs have "died" so the light output is noticeably reduced. I've speculated that it might have to do with running the LEDs when the converter/charger is running and the LEDs are seeing too much voltage than off the the battery alone. (I use the wide angle LEDs).

Perhaps I got a bad batch if others have had no issues. If so, I would definitely try a couple more because while they were fully functional I was happy with them.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Brian is almost correct. The resistor is to limit the current through the LED. There is very little voltage change across the LED with large changes in current. A limiting resistor is required even when you have a very well controlled lab power supply, unless you want to use constant current supply instead of a constant voltage supply. Typical LED specifications; Voltage across the LED 1.7 to 2 volts. Current through the LED is between 10 and 20 mA.

Maximum per LED heat disapation in watts = .04 Watts.

Often I've seen specifications written for the general consumer misleading or at best meaningess. I sat in meeting where the marketing guys will twist and turn electronic specifications to appear to mean something entirely different than designed. They may not be out and out lies, but for the uninformed, very misleading or confusing.

When it comes this type of thing sometimes marketing will advertise larger numbers to make it look bigger or better. Works quite well in a bigger is better society. Some of you might remember the transistor radio days when everybody was trying to advertise more transistors in the radio made it a better radio. In all the 10, 12, 16 transistor radios only 4 were really working. Because most people don't understand electrical heat disapation measured in watts, the numbers game can be played. It's too bad that light bulbs are sold by the watt, which means they are sold by the amount of heat they put out, not light.

To me watts is a totally useless specification for LEDs and has no bearing on the amount of light.

[Darwin Maring]

It’s appalling to even suggest or hint that a marketing person would mislead or lie, that is unless their lips are moving then that’s a totally different story.

[Byron Kinnaman]

It’s appalling to even suggest or hint that a marketing person would mislead or lie, that is unless their lips are moving then that’s a totally different story.

I've had many a fight with marketing about specifications. So far I've pretty well managed to keep out lies out, misleading, now that's a different story. When ever there's a call from a customer that he doesn't understand some specification guess who gets to try to explain it, the design engineer, of course. That's me. After a few years I simply appologize for marketing's misleading information and go from there.

[Joe MacDonald]

Hey Steve,
I started to kill some led's as well, and I kinda figured it was also due to the converter.

[Byron Kinnaman]

I have two of the 36 LED Superbright LED units in the trailer but haven't had a lot of luck with them. Multiple LEDs have "died" so the light output is noticeably reduced. I've speculated that it might have to do with running the LEDs when the converter/charger is running and the LEDs are seeing too much voltage than off the the battery alone. (I use the wide angle LEDs).

Perhaps I got a bad batch if others have had no issues. If so, I would definitely try a couple more because while they were fully functional I was happy with them.

My guess is that there are 5 or 6 LEDs in series. One in that string that has a problem will cause the rest to go out. Kind of like the Christmas lights where one light went out, they all go out. In this it's no more than 6.

I would be very surprised if your converter could put out enough voltage to kill the LEDs. Low voltage won't hurt them. If your converter was putting enough voltage to kill the LEDs other things would probably die too. The only exception would be is the coverter is putting out a lot of high voltage spikes, which isn't good. You can check this by measuring the output voltage with the converter running and the meter set to read AC NOT DC. If you read anything is should be very small.

[peterh]

I like the idea of low power consumption on the LEDs, but dislike the blue-ish color, and Lynne is downright uncomfortable with it, particularly when reading. Is there a way to get a natural-feeling, incandescent-colored light from an LED array?

--Peter

[Gerry]

Hey Steve,
I started to kill some led's as well, and I kinda figured it was also due to the converter.

Hey Joe and Steve, on the Super Bright site they said that all thier bulbs had resistors built in but maybe they do not consider these multiple light configurations with the socket plug in, ordinary bulbs?
Thanks for the heads up and where the converter I am useing is an older model you got my attention and this may be a question I want to ask the company if I do buy some.
Gina D. seems happy with them wonder if she had seperate resistors installed?
Do you need a resitor for each and every light? Or just one on the light curcuit?

After reading the replies I am leaning on getting 5 of the 36 panels to replace the bulbs I know run.
Would like to hear more about the reisitor though.
Gerry

[Joe MacDonald]

my lights are the mr16 24 led type mounted in track lighting fixtures.
when on shore power I have seen as much as 18 volts on the output from the converter.
It is an older progressive dynamics, and does not have a battery charge circuit.

[Kurt in BC]

to make it simple...

I tried LED bulbs in my stock fixtures. They were just not bright enought to read under.