My Broken Back 16ft. Casita - Fiberglass RV
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:27 PM   #1
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Casita 16ft.
California
Posts: 338
My Broken Back 16ft. Casita

Hello All,

I just posted my new member introduction last evening. Two days ago I bought a 1986, 16 ft. Casita for $300. All of the appliances are there. They look to be in good shape. It is missing what I think might be two closet structures of the interior. The chassis is good. However the body of the trailer is on life support. The roof is sagging. Correspondingly, the walls are pooched outward and the fender wells are tilted downward on the outside. The original floor, which I assume was plywood, has partially been replaced with 1/2" OSB.

The trailer was not roadworthy when I bought it. I was leary of trying to tow it the 45 miles from the previous owner's house to my home. To make her strong enough to move, I temporarily braced the interior, floor to ceiling,
with a 2X4 framework.

Originally I thought the sagging was solely due to the missing closet walls which would serve as bulkheads to retain the designed shape of the body. However now I have come to the determination that the floor is 80% of the problem. The OSB does not go edge to edge, but rather it has a seam in the center. There is a large section of the floor missing so the wall is only supported the thin fiberglass on the underside of the body. My first order of business is to get the floor replaced before moving on to jacking up the ceiling which will bring my walls back in place.

I am sorry that I have not provided photos. I will add them in a posting in the near future.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Mike
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:54 PM   #2
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Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
well

mike I think you secured yourself a bargain. a little jacking some new cabinenets to help in support and you are on your way.


good luck and happy thanksgiving

bob
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:44 PM   #3
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Name: Steve
Trailer: Scamp 13
California
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On good thing with a large restructuring project like this is you get a chance to build in some support to add an airconditioner on top.
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:07 PM   #4
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Name: Eric
Trailer: 1987 Casita 16
Illinois
Posts: 503
When you redo the floor, you might want to stiffen the FG as well. That is what I did. There are lots of threads here on rebuilds, and what you can do. I read a lot of them before I started mine. You can work out the sag, just jack it up an inch or so, then a week later jack it up again, etc. until you have it where you want it. If you have the parts, that is is the big deal, but a lot of the cabs aren't that hard to build, just don't expect anything to be "square and plumb." And enjoy it! you got a super great deal! You might want to take it off the frame in the early stage and inspect the frame, also if it is 25-30 years old you most likely will want to replace the axle while doing all the rebuild stuff, they often only last about that long. Since it is in the 80's, they often have undersized axles.
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:23 PM   #5
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Casita 16ft.
California
Posts: 338
Thanks all for the comments. I have been looking over yours and others threads and am learning quite a lot.

This morning I went out and jacked up the corners of the floors at the fender wells and propped them up with short wooden posts. I am hoping that the weight of the trailer on them will eventually push them back into place. One question I have for you is was the original wood bonded to the fiberglass bottom? If so, what carried the weight of the walls? Is it the wood bond to the fiberglass? I can see that if I simply put new wood back in still wouldn't cut it. The wall load still would be held up on the thin fiberglass bottom. My thought is that I could glass in some wooden cleats to the wall that lapped over the wood floor. The cleats would pick up the load of the wall and transfer it to the wood floor.

Mike
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:51 PM   #6
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Name: Eric
Trailer: 1987 Casita 16
Illinois
Posts: 503
The wood was bonded to the bottom, but only in the places that the screws were in the floor. There are about 18 screws throughout the floor, usually on the cross members, that hold the shell to the frame. What holds the roof up is the cabinets, and supports inside the camper. I decided to make two supports over the wheel wells and FG them to the walls for support.

When I took the floor out, I found that only in a few places was it actually tight, so I was able to lift it pretty easy. Where it was bonded, I found either a sharp wood chisel or my electric planner worked well to get the wood off. I wanted to get back to the fiberglass, so that I could seal it well, and that would make it stronger, and would keep the wood from ever rotting again.

I tried a few things some that worked, like power washing the glue on the walls. But take the windows out first, it will be easier. I found it also loosened up the glass strands a little, and if I was doing it again, I would sand everything after the powerwash to make the bond better. I used about 4 gals of epoxy on the bottom and about that on the top.
Also used a whole roll of the mat and ordered a second one that I am well over half through with. That was a bit of a surprise for me, that I went through that much, but I really feel like I have a good floor, and by glassing all the things to the walls, it is a very solid camper now.
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:57 PM   #7
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Name: Eric
Trailer: 1987 Casita 16
Illinois
Posts: 503
If you put in cabinets, that will be enough to hold the walls. I did put a little fiberglass around the outside to strengthen it, mostly because I noticed some places where the bouncing had cracked the shell right at the frame. Now that I have put the shower back in, the cabinets back in, and have the supports in, there is little movement to it, and I think it is solid. Also I am not putting the A/C on the roof. I am putting it in the cabinet by the door, and using a little cheap one that was with the camper, I think they got at Walmart or Home Depot. But I checked it out, and it works good. That way I can take it out in the fall and only put it back in as the spring starts to get hot.
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:57 AM   #8
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Casita 16ft.
California
Posts: 338
Thanks for your reply Eric. I had just been looking over your rebuild thread.

I will have to look and see if there are any screws in my floor. I don't think that I have. It must be attached somehow because of the jacking and blocking up of the walls on both sides of the fender well, the weight of that side of the trailer is currently being supported by outer corner of the FG wall. I hope it will slowly pull back itself back into line. According to the PO, the trailer has been sitting for 8 years in that sagging condition so I think the fiberglass might have taken on memory of that shape. It is going to take a lot of force to pull it up on the outside edge.

I am very surprised that there was no way that the side of the cab was not locked onto wood floor in some way. I like the rib that you added to yours. If did something similar and they were glassed into the walls, they could provide that anchoring of the wall to the floor I think.

Was the original flooring structure wood OSB? I can't tell if the OSB in my floor is original or was replaced. I do know that the curbside half of the structural flooring is MIA from the rear edge of the fender well forward to the door.
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Old 11-24-2017, 07:37 AM   #9
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Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
mr Eric

I have a question for you how do they secure the 2 halves of the trailer together? I am thinking not much as I see a lot of rivits on the belly band?

am I correct?

bob
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Old 11-24-2017, 07:38 AM   #10
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Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
broken back

I have to ask this is your trailer frame in good shape or has it cracked allowing the thing to bend?

bob
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:07 AM   #11
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Casita 16ft.
California
Posts: 338
Good morning Bob,

As to your first question regarding how the two halves are joined, I don't know because I have not gotten that far yet. The exterior trim piece on the belly band is still installed so I haven't seen rivets as of yet. I would think that the two halves would be bonded with some type of but...... perhaps some else has a definitive answer as a lot of my assumptions have been proven not accurate.

As to the second question, the frame looks perfectly fine based on my several peek unders from the side, visual inspections. I have not as of yet crawled underneath with a microscope however.

Mike
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:06 PM   #12
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Casita 16ft.
California
Posts: 338
First Photo Attempt

This is my first attempt at posting from my new Post Image photo server account. I dropped my old account when they changed policy by after ten years of free service, they demanding $199 a year to host images to forums. This is my first attempt at the new service. Here goes:

This first shot shows how far out of kilter the wheel arches are. This si the left side



Here is the right side


This is the first of two T braces added to support the ceiling,


Here is an exterior view of the LH side. It shows the deformity cosed by the kiltered fenderbox.


Here is the RH side. It is much better after spending the night with the outside corners of the fender box jacked up by a wooden post over night. You can see that the door still is a long way off from the body. After I get the botdy jacked back up where it should be perhaps a rearching of the door will be in order.
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:17 PM   #13
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Name: Mike
Trailer: 2012 Escape 19
Oklahoma
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The halves are joined with fiberglass resin to "glue" the lips together, then the joint is fiberglassed across. That joint is the strongest and most rigid part of the shell.
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:21 PM   #14
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Casita 16ft.
California
Posts: 338
Well it looks like my pictures came out OK. So now I thought I would describe my objectives.

1) First is that I was really looking for a 13 ft. trailer when this one came up. For $300 the price made it OK to take a risk. The reason for the smaller trailer is that I hope to pull it with my Subaru Forester. Hence the smaller size. I figured the 16 ft builder would allow me to put it back together stripped down to 13 ft. decorum. When I get the cab totally in shape and supported, I will take a test pull with my Subaru to see if that is even possible. Based on that drive, I will decide how much to put back in. I hope to have a dedicated bed in the back, the kitchen section, a closet on each side (to support the cab) and a two person dinette across the front of the cab. That is it.

2) I am not planning a frame off restoration or even a totally stripped bare caban restore as some of you folks have done. At least not for now. In the near term, I simply want to make repairs and get her stable enough to be useable. We will then take her on a few trips to get a feel for how we would like to appoint her interior. Think simple and you will get the idea.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:58 PM   #15
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Name: Eric
Trailer: 1987 Casita 16
Illinois
Posts: 503
Yes, it looks like your floor has been replaced at some time, the plywood will not hold as well, put the OSB replacement should be okay. The gummy residue on the sides that is a gold/yellow color is the glue that is used to hold on the carpet. If you are not doing a total rebuild, and the carpet doesn't smell, you might leave it for a couple of trips and see how it works. It is a rubber backed carpet that helps with the insulation. Since they began a floor restore, I would guess there are no screws holding it down. They would be Phillips self tapping screws, and would go into the smaller support cross frame members. You might want to check how well it is held down now and what is holding it down. Might not be anything -- you can take a 2x4 and see if it will lift, before I had anything really in I think it went up with only a little pressure.
As Mike mentioned, the two halves are joined with glass and epoxy. The belly band holds it together until the glassing sets up, and then everything is put it. Since some of the support was taken out you have the sag. But I think you will be able to jack it up and get most of it back. Also if you stiffen the floor it will help since the frame is back a few inches from the shell.

If you go back with what you are planning, I don't think you will have much to worry about with the weight, unless you put more water and other things in.

I bet you will enjoy the extra size. That was why we moved away from the 13 we had on order for a while.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:32 PM   #16
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Casita 16ft.
California
Posts: 338
Eric, Yes sir we will enjoy the space. I don't mind the simple appointments of the smaller trailers since we up and till now have been using a teardrop trailer or a tent.

I don't have the original carpet nor do I have the floor to ceiling cabinets. I will build the new cabinets from wood. What kind of flooring we will use is yet to be determined.

Mike
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:16 PM   #17
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Name: Evelyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mike View Post
Hello All,

I just posted my new member introduction last evening. Two days ago I bought a 1986, 16 ft. Casita for $300. All of the appliances are there. They look to be in good shape. It is missing...
Congratulations on your purchase! It always makes me sad when I see how much some of these FG beauties get neglected. Life happens to FG trailers, too, I guess. Then, folks like you come along with a plan and a determination to make it whole again. Bravo, and the very best of luck.

(I guess we all know how you'll be spending your winter.)
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:28 AM   #18
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Casita 16ft.
California
Posts: 338
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Originally Posted by EricAllyn View Post
Yes, it looks like your floor has been replaced at some time, the plywood will not hold as well, put the OSB replacement should be okay.
When you say, "the plywood would not hold as well", what do you mean? Do you think plywood is less rigid than OSB? Plywood's property in that regard is wholly dependent on the quality of the product. High quality plywood such as marine grade, has fewer voids and more plys of veneer making it far more rigid than the cheap stuff of the same dimension I am concerned that OSB, due to it being made from short fibers (chips) might be more prone to bending or breaking at the corners. That is my biggest issue with this trailer has that issue at the edges for and aft of the fender boxes. Even propping up the ceiling with great force and jacking on the outside corners of the fenders from the underside exterior has not brought these back in line as of yet. I'll keep her jacked up for a few days to see what happens over time. I assume these trailers came originally with 5/8 medium grade plywood. Is that correct? I could go up to 3/4 and use marine grade, but I am loath to increase the overall weight. given my 4 cyl Subaru tow vehicle.

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Originally Posted by EricAllyn View Post
Since they began a floor restore, I would guess there are no screws holding it down. They would be Phillips self tapping screws, and would go into the smaller support cross frame members. You might want to check how well it is held down now and what is holding it down. Might not be anything -- you can take a 2x4 and see if it will lift, before I had anything really in I think it went up with only a little pressure. .
I checked and have found hex head screws but have not determined if they are going into the crossmembers or the main beams of the chassis. Obviously where the OSB is missing, there are no screws. I am glad the cab stayed on during the 50 mile tow home LOL.

I was perplexed that whoever redid the floor ran the seam of the OSB long ways rather than running a full sheet crossways across the cab. I was thinking that that method would allow the weight of the unsupported cab to simply push the OSB down over the fulcrum (main chassis beams) if it were not one piece across laterally the cab. Learning that the screws are placed in the steel chassis cross, members decreases that concern since the half sheet would be held down by screws.. However that break in the wood down the center of the trailer would put those screws under greater stress since they would have to resist the fulcrum effect rather than only the job fastening the cab to the chassis. T'would be better to have a full sheet across the cab, I think. Of course this assumes that the cab is firmly supported by the wood such as being bonded or having some sort of cleat or shelf molded in with the fiberglass to transfer the mass of the cab to the wood floor. I recognize the cabinets are a factor too. I think that glassing in some kind of wooden cleat at intervals where the cab is not supported by bulkheads(closets) would go a long way toward strengthening the structure without adding excessive weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricAllyn View Post
Since some of the support was taken out you have the sag. But I think you will be able to jack it up and get most of it back. Also if you stiffen the floor it will help since the frame is back a few inches from the shell..
I hope so. Time will tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricAllyn View Post
If you go back with what you are planning, I don't think you will have much to worry about with the weight, unless you put more water and other things in.
WE are going on a camping diet in this trailer. We plan to only carry lightweight pots, pans & utensils for two, lightweight bedding such as down or polyfill etc. I took up low intensity backpacking (no more than about 7 miles a day with under 1,000 ft. elev. change.) a few years ago and learned very quickly that a few ounces here and there quickly add up very quickly into a really hard slog.

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Originally Posted by EricAllyn View Post
I bet you will enjoy the extra size. That was why we moved away from the 13 we had on order for a while.
I have often wondered if it would be possible to pull a larger trailer if it were equipped with smaller trailer amenities. This is my chance to answer that question. The extra walking space will be nice as long as I am not tempted to fill it all up LOL.
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:35 AM   #19
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Name: Michael
Trailer: Casita 16ft.
California
Posts: 338
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Originally Posted by Ev in Oregon View Post
Congratulations on your purchase! It always makes me sad when I see how much some of these FG beauties get neglected. Life happens to FG trailers, too, I guess. Then, folks like you come along with a plan and a determination to make it whole again. Bravo, and the very best of luck.

(I guess we all know how you'll be spending your winter.)
Thank You Ev for your comments. I agree that it is sadt that these little trailers suffer over neglect or by ill informed modifications.

Yes, my winter is all laid out given this project. We hope to be camping after our eldest daughter's wedding in March.

Mike
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Old 11-25-2017, 04:19 PM   #20
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Name: Eric
Trailer: 1987 Casita 16
Illinois
Posts: 503
The main issue with floors in the FG campers is with water. Plywood voids allow the water to sit inside the wood and begin the rot process. OSB has more rosin based fill and doesn't let the water move as fast through the wood to begin the rot process so generally lasts longer. Since it is cheaper than the high quality plywood, and generally less susceptible to the water retention, I think that it why it is almost always used. If the plywood is completely enclosed with rosin, then there is not a problem, but that becomes difficult with screws to hold things down, etc. i stayed with OSB and I did run it across the width so the seams were in good places, and with the Fiberglass on the bottom and top, the seams filled with rosin, and it became one structural piece.

I think the reason you have some of both is that the floor work may have been done at different times. Often the drivers side needs replacement first, since it has the water heater and the shower on that side.

I don't think weight will be an issue, especially if the cabinets are made of light fir, and not a hard wood. I am doing douglas fir with luan insets and I think it will actually be less than the ones that come with the camper.

On the flattening of the floor. If you have almost all the crews and bolts out, another way to get it to true up a little, would be to lift it and put something under the whole body, and them a support in the middle gets all the weight off the sides, it is all transferred into the middle support, and the sides get stretched, and with the flat bottom it gets a better shape, then the floor FG top and bottom of the wood will give you a very good floor, and a few side supports will give you good walls and ceiling. What I found is that I could set the curve with the walls if I supported the ceiling, and the curve on the wall was glassed in well. If you don't have any cabinets, then you could build your curve in the cabinets the way you want it, and glass it to make it strong.
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