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Old 10-14-2011, 06:06 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
The first picture shows the thru hull fitting. This fitting is normally used on fiberglass boats. It is filled with Lexal.

The second picture is intended to show the thickness of the panel (really the thinness). That is my Scamp door key beside the edge of the panel. The edge can also be seen behind the thru hull fitting.
Norm,
Can you give us some more detail on the thru hull fitting, source and cost and how it works, thanks
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Old 10-14-2011, 06:47 PM   #102
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Thru hull fitting

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Norm,
Can you give us some more detail on the thru hull fitting, source and cost and how it works, thanks
I have a second one and will take some pictures of it in the morning and get the manufacturer's name and post them on the site.

I bought one from West Marine that I didn't like and got a bag of different ones from a nephew who owned a marine electronics company.

It is very low profile, I'd say a 1/4 inch thick and about an 1.75 inches in diameter. The thru hole into the hull is 1 inch in diameter. It was designed for two coax cables, 180 degrees apart.

It is white plastic. I sprayed it with white gloss to protect it from the Sun.

The three screws are stainless and came with it. I feeled the space under the cap with Lexel, a non silicone caulking compound.

I will say we've had tons of rain and no leaks.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:58 AM   #103
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Thru hull fitting Information

The fitting is By Glomex, RA 140. You can see the cutout where the wires enter the fitting. I have four wires going into the single opening. At 180 degrees from the open position is a cutout, by design, that can be opened for additional wires or coax.

It's a British Company with an American Distributor. I think it's about $10. The fitting does come with three stainless steel screws.

Glomex - The best in Marine Antennas - GAMMA PRODOTTI

The adhesive I used is by Lexel, I used the clear type in a handy plastic tube. I also use it to replace rivet caps. Note it will not stick to silicon based products.

Lexel® - The superior alternative to silicone.

Hope this helps
Attached Thumbnails
Connector1.jpg   Connector2.jpg  

Connector3.jpg  
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:47 PM   #104
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PWM Solar Controller

I installed the PWM Solar Controller that I owned and bought a MPPT-15 Controller that I should have in a week. They are virtually identical in size so it will be easy to swap them out. With my new Watt meter I should be able to switch between the two and see the difference in power delivered to the battery between a standard Pulse Width Modulator (PWM) controller and the newer Maximum Power Point controller (MPPT).

I mounted it on top of our new over the couch closet, now loaded with a dozen of our sweaters and pullovers and a couple of dress outfits (I'm ready to go).

The controllers are very easy to install. From left to right on the controller: two wires from the solar panel(s) and two wires to the battery.

There are two pictures. The first shows the PWM controller. Note the first two light monitors the Solar Panel and the second monitors the battery. In the picture they are both green but actually the second one is blinking indicating the battery is fully charged. If the second light is not blinking but green, the battery is charging. If the second light is yellow, the battery is low.

The second picture shows the whole closet. Just below the left hand corner of the closet I installed a cigarette lighter outlet to allow us to power a small inverter or our small compressor.
Attached Thumbnails
Solar Controller PW.jpg   Solar Controller with output.jpg  

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Old 11-09-2011, 01:42 PM   #105
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MPPT Solar Controller Test

I initially installed the PWM Solar Controller that I already owned and recently replaced it with a MPPT Solar Controller. From a far they both seem to do the job. The MPPT Controller was $25 or so.

I did notice that the MPPT Controller, while charging the battery, caused the LED lamps to brighten and dim as it pulsed the current. Really not too much of an issue because we're unlikely to be running the lights during the time that the controller's operational.

As well I received the watt meter to compare the operation of the two controllers. I choose a clear day and put the watt meter in the controller's output to the battery. I was looking to see if the current increased to the battery with the MPPT Solar controller. Maximum battery current was about 1.8 amps with the MPPT Controller and 1.3 amps with the PWM Controller. This was a rather significant difference.

The watt meter has the ability to store peak current during any time period. Of course some of the difference in peak current might be due to timing and lighting conditions. However it seemed to me that in watching current flow the MPPT Controller always produced higher readings.

To make sure the controllers were working at high capacity during the test I was drawing about 4 amps from the battery. I had one incandescent and 8 LEDs bulbs on. I hope to do a more thorough test when I get to a more southern climate and have a little more time. We leave next Wednesday.

As well the Scotch High Bond Exterior tape I used to hold the panels down seems to be working. First, we had 3 inches of wet snow the other day with no ill effects. Second, every day water condenses on the Scamps roof, frosting it with a thin layer of ice each night. It takes about half a day for it to evaporate. Again no ill effects. Third, The tape, because the panel is fastened to a curve surface, is continually under stress. Again there appears to be no ill effects, no signs of lifting or separating.

I have only driven the trailer a short distance since installation so I can not see that the panels will not be sucked off the roof at a later date but so far so good.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:10 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
The fitting is By Glomex, RA 140. You can see the cutout where the wires enter the fitting. I have four wires going into the single opening. At 180 degrees from the open position is a cutout, by design, that can be opened for additional wires or coax.

It's a British Company with an American Distributor. I think it's about $10. The fitting does come with three stainless steel screws.

Glomex - The best in Marine Antennas - GAMMA PRODOTTI

The adhesive I used is by Lexel, I used the clear type in a handy plastic tube. I also use it to replace rivet caps. Note it will not stick to silicon based products.

Lexel® - The superior alternative to silicone.

Hope this helps

Thanks Norm -

I like the looks of both of these products - I bookmarked for later reference - I still have a solar install ahead of me on our new RV.

I also like your new controller - why not get maximum charge from X amount of sunlight ;-)

Bill
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:11 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
I initially installed the PWM Solar Controller that I already owned and recently replaced it with a MPPT Solar Controller. From a far they both seem to do the job. The MPPT Controller was $25 or so.

I did notice that the MPPT Controller, while charging the battery, caused the LED lamps to brighten and dim as it pulsed the current. Really not too much of an issue because we're unlikely to be running the lights during the time that the controller's operational.

As well I received the watt meter to compare the operation of the two controllers. I choose a clear day and put the watt meter in the controller's output to the battery. I was looking to see if the current increased to the battery with the MPPT Solar controller. Maximum battery current was about 1.8 amps with the MPPT Controller and 1.3 amps with the PWM Controller. This was a rather significant difference.

The watt meter has the ability to store peak current during any time period. Of course some of the difference in peak current might be due to timing and lighting conditions. However it seemed to me that in watching current flow the MPPT Controller always produced higher readings.

To make sure the controllers were working at high capacity during the test I was drawing about 4 amps from the battery. I had one incandescent and 8 LEDs bulbs on. I hope to do a more thorough test when I get to a more southern climate and have a little more time. We leave next Wednesday.

As well the Scotch High Bond Exterior tape I used to hold the panels down seems to be working. First, we had 3 inches of wet snow the other day with no ill effects. Second, every day water condenses on the Scamps roof, frosting it with a thin layer of ice each night. It takes about half a day for it to evaporate. Again no ill effects. Third, The tape, because the panel is fastened to a curve surface, is continually under stress. Again there appears to be no ill effects, no signs of lifting or separating.

I have only driven the trailer a short distance since installation so I can not see that the panels will not be sucked off the roof at a later date but so far so good.
Great looking installation, congratulation. MPPT is 38.5% better than PWM, that is really good. I followed Morningstar recommendation to install a fuse between the charge controller and the batteries and used the breaker with integrated manual switch. When the trailer is in storage I disconnect the charge controller from the batteries.

George.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:42 AM   #108
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Fuse

Thanks George,

I did not install a fuse. I guess the purpose of the fuse is to prevent the battery from sending a current surge back thru the controller. Certainly no current surge from the controller could be a problem since the maximum from our panels is around 5 amps.

George, what size fuse did you use?

As to disconnecting for storage, we never have our trailer in storage and that's a good thing. We keep our trailer powered at all times when we're home and never put it into storage. Though we do most of our traveling from September thru May, we also travel occasionaly during the summer.

Thanks for your thoughts
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:58 AM   #109
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Thanks George,

I did not install a fuse. I guess the purpose of the fuse is to prevent the battery from sending a current surge back thru the controller. Certainly no current surge from the controller could be a problem since the maximum from our panels is around 5 amps.

George, what size fuse did you use?

As to disconnecting for storage, we never have our trailer in storage and that's a good thing. We keep our trailer powered at all times when we're home and never put it into storage. Though we do most of our traveling from September thru May, we also travel occasionaly during the summer.

Thanks for your thoughts
Hi Norm,

The Morningstar manual called for 25A fuse. Rather high trigger amperage indicated that the breaker/fuse should most likely be protecting wiring in case of the controller meltdown. I couldn’t find a 25A surface mount switchable breaker and opted for a 40A one. My wiring is heavy enough to survive 40A short.

George.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details
http://www.delcity.net/store/Switchable-Mid!Range-Circuit-Breaker-!-32-V/p_742604.a_1
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:26 AM   #110
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Solar Panel Test

This was our first drive with the Solar Panels taped to the roof. It only represents 1% of this year's trip. Both panels stayed firmly stuck to the roof.

We used Scotch Exterior High Bond Tape on all four edges of each panel. Neither temperature nor weather seemed to have any effect on the tape so far though we haven't seem particularly warm temperatures beyond the self generated temperatures of the panels.

Though I've already posted this picture I thought it was important to put in the Solar Install thread. It clearly shows how thin the solar panels are (two 40 watt panels).
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Solar Panel Shake Down 2.jpg  
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:33 AM   #111
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I love those thin panels Norm! That is definitely the way to go. My guess is that heat, rather than cold will be the biggest challenge for the tape. It should take flexing in stride. The stuff you used is pretty amazing. I've used it before. Is there any possibilty of riveting the corners of those panals? I'd feel better having some mechanical attachment and someday I'd like to duplicate what you have done. It's the cleanest solar I have seen.
David
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:36 PM   #112
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Solar Panel Mounting

I've been reluctant to put additional holes thru the roof. On our last trailer we mounted traditional framed solar panels that weighed about 30 pounds each. They both leaked severely around the mounting points. I think the mass of the panels kept reopening the mounting point seals. Obviously the new panels are a lot lighter and wouldn't move, still ....

By the time we do half the trip we should be certain if this will be a permanent soultion. I'll keep people tuned in to the results.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:51 PM   #113
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Appreciate all this information. On your Glomex RA 140, as you screwed it in from the top, is the only bite for the screws the exterior shell? Or did also mount something on the inside of the trailer like a piece of wood for the screw to bite into? Thanks.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:47 PM   #114
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Norm,
Did you remove the polish where you mounted? Your roof looks so shiny, I'm wondering if the wax/polish has any effects on the adhesiveness of the tape?
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:34 PM   #115
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Screws and Glomex

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Appreciate all this information. On your Glomex RA 140, as you screwed it in from the top, is the only bite for the screws the exterior shell? Or did also mount something on the inside of the trailer like a piece of wood for the screw to bite into? Thanks.
Initially I was simply going to fill it with Lexal and weigh it down until it dried but in the end I filled it with Lexal and drilled three holes into the shell and added the stainless screws. I suspect the Lexal is holding it all together. I also incased the wires in spiral wrap and Lexaled it down in the center of the spiral wrap. No wood on the inside.
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:40 PM   #116
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Norm,
Did you remove the polish where you mounted? Your roof looks so shiny, I'm wondering if the wax/polish has any effects on the adhesiveness of the tape?
Jim,

After the fact I worried about the Red Max 3 but couldn't get the panel up to do any thing about it. As a result I carry the rest of the tape with me.
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:19 AM   #117
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I initially installed the PWM Solar Controller that I already owned and recently replaced it with a MPPT Solar Controller. From a far they both seem to do the job. The MPPT Controller was $25 or so.

I did notice that the MPPT Controller, while charging the battery, caused the LED lamps to brighten and dim as it pulsed the current. Really not too much of an issue because we're unlikely to be running the lights during the time that the controller's operational.

As well I received the watt meter to compare the operation of the two controllers. I choose a clear day and put the watt meter in the controller's output to the battery. I was looking to see if the current increased to the battery with the MPPT Solar controller. Maximum battery current was about 1.8 amps with the MPPT Controller and 1.3 amps with the PWM Controller. This was a rather significant difference.
My guess is the flicker of the lights is from the method of MPPT operation they chose for the controller.

From Wikipedia:

" Constant voltage method Main article: Constant voltage method
This method makes use of the fact that the ratio of maximum power point voltage to the open circuit voltage is often close to a constant value, with 0.76 being a common estimate. One problem with this method arises from the fact that it requires momentarily setting the PV array current to 0 to measure the array's open circuit voltage. The array's operating voltage is then set to (for example) 76% of this measured value. But during the time the array is disconnected, the available energy is wasted. It has also been found that while 76% of the open circuit voltage is often a very good approximation, it does not always coincide with the maximum power point.[5] Thus this method may not give as much efficiency as others, especially if conditions are highly variable or the physical behavior of the cell deviates from expectations. Its main advantage is that it is relatively simple to implement and thus usually less expensive."


Does the watt meter track amp-hrs? It would be interesting to see which controller has a better solar harvest. Boy, I'd sure have to eat some crow if the $25 controller does indeed work reliably in true MPPT mode!


Bruce
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Old 11-19-2011, 12:49 PM   #118
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We used Scotch Exterior High Bond Tape on all four edges of each panel. Neither temperature nor weather seemed to have any effect on the tape so far though we haven't seem particularly warm temperatures beyond the self generated temperatures of the panels.
Norm....thanks for all the info on your Solar install. I'm close to ordering one of those 80W flexible solar panels. Being new to all this.....I haven't quite figured out if you place the Scotch Brand tape under the edge of the panel [therefore it's double sided tape] or over the edge of the panel onto the roof surface, making it adhesive on one side only.
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:13 PM   #119
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Amp Hpurs

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Originally Posted by bdosborn View Post
My guess is the flicker of the lights is from the method of MPPT operation they chose for the controller.

From Wikipedia:

" Constant voltage method Main article: Constant voltage method
This method makes use of the fact that the ratio of maximum power point voltage to the open circuit voltage is often close to a constant value, with 0.76 being a common estimate. One problem with this method arises from the fact that it requires momentarily setting the PV array current to 0 to measure the array's open circuit voltage. The array's operating voltage is then set to (for example) 76% of this measured value. But during the time the array is disconnected, the available energy is wasted. It has also been found that while 76% of the open circuit voltage is often a very good approximation, it does not always coincide with the maximum power point.[5] Thus this method may not give as much efficiency as others, especially if conditions are highly variable or the physical behavior of the cell deviates from expectations. Its main advantage is that it is relatively simple to implement and thus usually less expensive."


Does the watt meter track amp-hrs? It would be interesting to see which controller has a better solar harvest. Boy, I'd sure have to eat some crow if the $25 controller does indeed work reliably in true MPPT mode!


Bruce
Our watt meter does track amp hours. Unfortunately it came shortly bfore we left NE however when I get to FL I will get some time and repeat the experiment measuring amp hours and post the resukts.
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:16 PM   #120
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Double sided tape

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Originally Posted by Don Dunsmore View Post
Norm....thanks for all the info on your Solar install. I'm close to ordering one of those 80W flexible solar panels. Being new to all this.....I haven't quite figured out if you place the Scotch Brand tape under the edge of the panel [therefore it's double sided tape] or over the edge of the panel onto the roof surface, making it adhesive on one side only.

The tape is double sided. I put a piece of blue painters tape on the roof to define where I wanted the edge of the panwl. I then put the panel upside down and put tape on four edges.

I then lined it up with the blue tape and layed it down so one edge lined up with the tape.

I actually bought two 40 watt panels instead of one 80 watt panel.
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