New wheels 4500 a bit of a pain.

[cheenyc]

just wanted to see if you guys can help me out I just got a 1979 4500 and wanted to get new wheels and tires seems like it has the original hubs that use wheel bolts would you know the pilot hole size for the wheel most that I find are 3.19 i'm told that is to big since my 4500 is hub centric and the wheel centers from the hub not the lugs
thanks guys

[Brian B-P]

Hub-centric trailer axles are very uncommon; are you sure? The hub would have a machined centre boss (or flange) to precisely fit the wheel centre bore; the protruding centre of a trailer hub usually has a rough cast surface.

eTrailer's Help Information contains this statement:

To determine which one you have on your trailer, take a look at how the wheel attaches to the hub. If it uses wheel bolts, like # 7-23, then it is hub-centric.

If it has wheel studs that are built into the hub, and lug nuts like # X1023R, then it is lug-centric.

Is this the basis for the conclusion that the axle is hub-centric? Although provided by an "expert" from a reputable supplier, I suspect that it is not correct in every case, even if it is a general trend, and perhaps applies to this Trillium.

[cheenyc]

Mine use 7-23 I'm hub centric

[Ian G.]

Hub centric "bushings" or rings are available, they are used for aftermarket wheels used on cars that use hub centric rims.
Don't confuse these with Hub Centric wheel spacers.

Most rings are plastic but you could also have metal (aluminum) ones made by any machine shop.

Here is an example:


A Google or Ebay search should provide some more information or potential sources.

[cheenyc]

Thanks guys....

[cheenyc]

So you really only need the rings to center the tire.

[Ian G.]

Originally Posted by cheenyc

So you really only need the rings to center the tire.

Yes that is all that is needed, they are used extensively in the performance car sector. They are just used to locate the wheel, the lug nuts (bolts in your case) provide the clamping force to secure the wheel.

[cheenyc]

Cool. Thanks .

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ian G.

Hub centric "bushings" or rings are available, they are used for aftermarket wheels used on cars that use hub centric rims.

Yes, but they are for alloy wheels, which are much thicker. I've never heard of these rings being used with steel wheels.

[cheenyc]

Iv been told as long as the wheel bolts are tapered that it will be fine with a larger hole over the hub ? Like on an old VW.

[Ian G.]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Yes, but they are for alloy wheels, which are much thicker. I've never heard of these rings being used with steel wheels.

No reason they cannot be used with steel wheels, they may need to be slipped over the hub first then the wheel placed over the ring but I see no reason they would not work.

Originally Posted by cheenyc

Iv been told as long as the wheel bolts are tapered that it will be fine with a larger hole over the hub ? Like on an old VW.

I agree that if the lug bolts use a tapered or conical seat that should locate the wheel correctly.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cheenyc

Iv been told as long as the wheel bolts are tapered that it will be fine with a larger hole over the hub ? Like on an old VW.

The area under the head (not the threads) of the bolt is normally conical or tapered, just like a normal nut, to match the seat area of the wheel. The shape forces the hole in the wheel to be centered on the stud/bolt (without depending on the centre hole to match), and that's the basis of bolt-centric wheel fastening.

On the other hand, even hub-centric wheels normally use conical nut/bolt seats (although not always -Toyota alloy wheels typically don't). Conical seats are necessary for a bolt-centric setup, but they don't necessarily mean that the hub and wheel are intended to be used without hub centering.

Will bolt-centering be fine even though hub-centering was intended? With conical seats, it will work... but will it work well enough?

My guess is that hub-centering of wheels that use bolts isn't to make the wheel fastening stronger or more precisely centred; instead, I think it's just to make it easier to install the wheel. With a hub having studs, you can just "hang" the wheel on the studs while you start the nuts. With bolts, there's nothing to hold the wheel in place while you get the bolts lined up and started into the threaded holes... unless the wheel fits closely on the hub. If this is the only reason for hub centering of these wheels, then it's just a convenience issue.

[cheenyc]

Since I can not find any wheels with my center size I went ahead and got a biger size . I did buy some rings as well. I just put them on nice and slow and hopefully center.lol. Thanks for the help guys.