Preparing a 1991 Scamp 16

[honda03842]

Unfortunately I did not get a picture with the awning in place. I guess it will have to wait for Florida.

As a final item I weighed the tongue weight today. It is at 205 pounds with a topped off Propane tank. This is about normal for us, varying with the amount of propane and water.

The small tow vehicles typically have a relatively low max tongue weight. Our CRV, at least for the European rated version, is 220 lbs and the Subaru at 200 lbs require management of tongue weight.

Though we have a fully loaded trailer for 7-11 month trips our tongue weight is always around 200 pounds +/- 10 pounds. We do not find this difficult, partially because we have only one Propane tank and one battery.

We usually weigh our trailer before we leave but I'm sure it's right around it's normal 2400 lbs.

On the road Monday.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

The small tow vehicles typically have a relatively low max tongue weight, our's at least for the European rated vehicle is 220 lbs and the Subaru require management of tongue weight. .

Norm when did you sell the Honda and buy a Subaru????? How did I miss that big news??????????

[honda03842]

Hope the edit plays better in BC.

[Carol H]

Sorry Norm I still don't get it. What in the world does the Subaru's specs which is a totally different car than a Honda CRV including its tow capacity have to do with how you load your Honda? A bit if a head scratcher.....

[honda03842]

Carol,

I was trying to write about the fact that many small cars have relatively low tongue weights. As a result those that tow need to pay attention to the tongue weight.

For me this means weighing the tongue a few times a year and always before we leave for the year, a good practice for most RVers and the reason I posted.

I mentioned Subaru, as well as our CRV, because the Subaru is frequently used as a tow vehicle. You had recently mentioned that it is a consideration for your loading of your Scamp, indicating that you pay attention as well.

Hope that clarifies things...

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by honda03842

It appears our last mod before we leave will be the addition of the awning.

Ginny has sown the awning material, about 12x9 feet, or 12 square yards. It weighs about 2 ozs per yard or about a 1 1/2 lbs. The material is forest green though Ginny calls it teal. It is urethane coated rip stop nylon purchased from Seattle Fabric.

She sewed a loop along the each of the long sides. A 1/2 inch plastic segmented pole slips thru the upper loop and then slides over four plastic Command Hooks. These hooks are removable and do not damage the surface.

A similar but larger diameter pipe will go thru the loop away from the trailer. Each end of this pipe will be connected to a pole via a right angle connector. I'll build that in the morning and show a picture.

I'm interested in why you chose not to install a regular pull down awning...I've found mine to be so much more convenient!

Francesca

[honda03842]

There were a couple of reasons. I just wanted to make one. I wanted something light, mine weighs just a few pounds. I did not want to add something to the roof, it would disturb the roof line visually and aerodynamically. I did not want to make holes in the roof.

Lastly I'm retired with time.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Lastly I'm retired with time.

Now, THAT makes sense to me...I've got a feller just like you around here, and I try to keep him busy and out of my hair!

I'll be interested to see the awning deployed one you get it all done- hope you post pics...

Francesca

[honda03842]

Francesca,

We made an almost identical awning for our's son's 1997 Scamp 13 and he used it at the NOG this year. I posted a picture on the Preparing a 1991... with some description. It worked well for that extended weekend.

Our awning is 12 feet long and about 9 feet wide; his was 10' x 9'. It's not super colorful but I will tell you that Seattle Fabric has more colors than I could imagine.

This is the link to that page.

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...-46387-20.html

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Carol, I was trying to write about the fact that many small cars have relatively low tongue weights. As a result those that tow need to pay attention to the tongue weight. <cut> I mentioned Subaru, as well as our CRV, because the Subaru is frequently used as a tow vehicle. You had recently mentioned that it is a consideration for your loading of your Scamp, indicating that you pay attention as well.

I do indeed watch the tongue weight as I do my trailers axle weight and what I load into my tug as well - for the simple reason I like to stay within or as close as possible to all my tugs tow specs. I am not the only one here that does regardless of what they tow with.

Look around, you will find many tugs with higher tow caps that also have tongue rating caps that do not equal 10% of their total tow cap. That's not a situation unique to small tow vehicles. The lower one keeps the trailers axle weight the higher the % that can be achieve on the tongue without going over the tugs tongue specs. My trailer tows more solidly in all tow conditions if I can keep the tongue in the 10% range -especially if I am going to be traveling at its tires max rating of 65 mph in hilly areas. That means I need to watch my axle weight and reduce what I put in the trailer and sometimes if I have the trailer really loaded up, I do need to move a gear box I keep in the trailer ahead of the axle to get the tongue weight up and doing that does sometimes result in the tongue weight going over spec by between 20-40lbs - depending on how far forward I put it. But its not under all conditions/situations and when I do I make sure I'm not carry much in the back of the tug (although I don't normally anyways). Regardless the total trailer weight is still a couple of hundred under the total tow cap of the Subaru and the total allowable gross rating is well under as well.

I am not happy about sometimes having to go over the tongue rating even though some would suggest its not really a big enough amount over or frequency to really worry about. As a result my next tug will have a higher rating all the way around. I am just not able to let my imagination run wild enough to think that my car was the same as the one sold in Europe or that I am actually towing in Europe - wish I could as that would mean that I could toss another 150 lbs or more on the tongue My inability to go to that make believe situation is why I openly suggest to people wanting to towing a fiberglass trailer with a Subaru that they stick to a 13' so they never have to be as watchful of all the weights as I am with a light 16'.

Sway bars are as its been said a nice insurance policy to have. But if one is running at a very low % of tongue weight and adding water or additional storage to the rear of the trailer to achieve that tongue rating , then IMHO its a good bet the sway bar is doing more than just waiting for use as an emergency panic stop insurance policy. I personally would rather know without any artificial devices added to the mix that the trailer is towing stable & straight.

Bottom line is you and I both clearly have different towing practises and will never agree on what is or isn't a safe practice. The Subaru and the CRV have equally as different towing specs so there is little point or value in the comparison of either of them as well. If the car could speak I have a hunch it would say it doesn't appreciate any attempts to be tossed under the same bus in regards to your towing practises anymore than I personally do.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Francesca,

We made an almost identical awning for our's son's 1997 Scamp 13 and he used it at the NOG this year. I posted a picture on the Preparing a 1991... with some description. It worked well for that extended weekend.

Our awning is 12 feet long and about 9 feet wide; his was 10' x 9'. It's not super colorful but I will tell you that Seattle Fabric has more colors than I could imagine.

This is the link to that page.

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...-46387-20.html

Looks good!

Francesca

[honda03842]

Carol,

I can read that you've taken offense.

It was never my intent to offend you. Every year I report my trailer weight because I think it's important

This year I can only report the tongue because our weigh station is closed on Monday when we leave.

My reporting has nothing to do with you but rather my tongue weight and the requirment to manage tongue weight in smaller tow vehicles like ours.

I am not seeking to re-open the Honda towing discussion.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Bottom line is you and I both clearly have different towing practises and will never agree on what is or isn't a safe practice.

Yep, this summarizes it nicely......until the next towing thread.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Every year I report my trailer weight because I think it's important

Norm, now you owe me a new keyboard! My coffee went everywhere!

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Carol H

My coffee went everywhere!

Might I suggest a dishwasher safe silicone computer keyboard?

[honda03842]

The last sentence of my last post should have began "I 'am not' seeking....

A keyboard not rated for coffee drinkers??????

Safe year to all. We head out in the morning just beating the expected snow.

[Jared J]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Every year I report my trailer weight because I think it's important

This year I can only report the tongue because our weigh station is closed on Monday when we leave.

I don't know if you care to find out, but you can do it by putting a long board on top of a bathroom scale on one end, and a piece of 2x4, etc. on the other end. What you multiply by depends on where the tire is on the board in relation to the scale. It's not perfect, but wi get it quite close.

[honda03842]

Thank you Jared for your idea.

I do have an alternate method to measure and will probably give it a try. I used to use it on the motorhome and turned out to be relatively accurate when compared to scale weighing of the motorhome.

I suspect the trailer is very close to last year's scale weighed 2400 lbs because we have not added anything to the trailer of significance compared to last year and actually have removed some stuff.

The fact that the tongue weight is nearly identical to last year is another indicator.

I'll report sometime next month when we get settled for a couple of months.

Happy to be back on the road.

[Steve and Rosemary]

Hey Norm and Ginny,

I know you're out on the road enjoying yourselves (I'm so jealous) but before I forget, I need to tell you that I'm very interested in seeing more pictures and getting more details about your awning. I'm a little confused about what kind of "loop" was sewn into both ends. At first, I figured it was just an extra large "hem" that the poles could fit through but I'm not sure that will allow the top pole to hang on those hooks.

Anyways, no hurry -- everything is frozen here so I won't get out there to work on it for a couple more months. Happy trails!

[honda03842]

Steve,

We're mostly goofing with the bees this year until we leave for Newfoundland in the spring for the Newfie Fiberglass Rally and a number of weeks of exploration on the 'rock'.

We make a fairly substantial loop in the material, adequate to slide the pipe thru. This loop is not dis-similar to the loop for a curtain rod except bigger.

We do not cut out where the pipe slides over the 4 brackets though we originally thought we would. We simply drop the pipe and loop over the brackets. So far ir seems fine though if I were in the business I might have made a finished hole in the loop.

I'll make a picture and post it in a couple of days.