Quieting the Suburban furnace model NT-16SE, same as the NT-20SE - Page 5 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 11-06-2011, 08:45 PM   #57
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Thermostat

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Originally Posted by DavidSo View Post
David,
People have been using the cheap digital thermostats from Walmart, and that is what I plan to do. Don't buy an RV digital because they cost way too much! I've used cats before too and I like them. I especially like the quiet. I designed an exhaust hood for mine that eliminated most of the moisture. It came down over the top of the cat slightly and served as a heat exchanger as well as an exhaust. It was all made from aluminum sheet. My trailer came with the furnace but if I can't successfully quiet it, I will probably go back to using a cat.
David
I installed this thermostat - Surburban Propane Digital Thermostat. - post 17. It runs on 2 AA batteries which are installed in the swinging door. To disconnect the batteries I just swing the door out.

George
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:26 PM   #58
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12VDC regulators

I found these two 3A and 6A 12VDC regulators. Waterproof feature is nice. Fan RPM at 12V could be reduced by approximately 13% from 13.6V or 17% from 14V. In noise level this reduction could be more significant. I am contemplating getting one of these and measure the sound at 12V and 13.6V. Furnace noise is very annoying. Additional RPM reduction could be easily done by a resistor in series.

George.

DC-DC Stable Converter Voltage Regulator 8V-40V Step Down 12V 6A 72W waterproof | eBay
DC-DC Converter Regulator 8V-40V Step Down 12V 3A 36W Voltage Stabilizer | eBay
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:48 PM   #59
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In the installation manual for NT 16 SE furnace that I installed last year it tells how to adjust the thermostat for longer or shorter cycles. The adjustment is called the "anticipator"
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:15 AM   #60
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In the installation manual for NT 16 SE furnace that I installed last year it tells how to adjust the thermostat for longer or shorter cycles. The adjustment is called the "anticipator"
Yes that is correct, I have tried Various combinations with the little dials, and it does change to cycling times, but not in a seemingly beneficial way. I am going to give the digital house Tstat a try. And see what happens. It should be noted that while I was running on the reduced power, the cycle times were more appropriate. And the unit ran slightly longer but without the huge extremes in temperatures.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:41 AM   #61
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Yes that is correct, I have tried Various combinations with the little dials, and it does change to cycling times, but not in a seemingly beneficial way. I am going to give the digital house Tstat a try. And see what happens. It should be noted that while I was running on the reduced power, the cycle times were more appropriate. And the unit ran slightly longer but without the huge extremes in temperatures.
I have not yet moved my thermostat to prove my suspicions, since the problem with temperature swings is a minor one for me, but I suspect that placing the thermostat on the side of the cabinet which houses the furnace may be a contributing factor. The furnace heats up the cabinet and the warm cabinet delays the cooldown of the thermostat, thus exaserbating any temperature swing. The solution may be as simple as relocating the thermostat.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:37 AM   #62
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I have my T-stat on the dinette side of the closet in the exact middle height. So I can save you moving it there . A small fan running that pulls the hotter air down towards the floor helps tremendously. An insulated floor in my opinion would make all the difference in the world! My trailer is now currently up for sale. But if I end up keeping it I am going to do some experimenting with floor heating. Since I have hot water I was considering some hydronics on the underbelly!
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:34 PM   #63
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I found these two 3A and 6A 12VDC regulators. Waterproof feature is nice. Fan RPM at 12V could be reduced by approximately 13% from 13.6V or 17% from 14V. In noise level this reduction could be more significant. I am contemplating getting one of these and measure the sound at 12V and 13.6V. Furnace noise is very annoying. Additional RPM reduction could be easily done by a resistor in series.

George.

DC-DC Stable Converter Voltage Regulator 8V-40V Step Down 12V 6A 72W waterproof | eBay
DC-DC Converter Regulator 8V-40V Step Down 12V 3A 36W Voltage Stabilizer | eBay
That would probably work perfectly! Now if you were to add some resistance behind one of those, that would work. Drop the final voltage to about 11.5V or so and it would run tons quieter. Once you have a regulated input you can use resistors to drop the voltage to exactly where you want it. And the units seem to run just fin at 10V as long as you have the amps. I may order one of those myself and do some testing, Thanks for the links!
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:51 AM   #64
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I would like to float an idea that I am going to do to my trailer. Tap into the hot water heater with a circulation pump. Run it through a base board heater that I am going to make out of 3/8 soft copper and get as much length as possible. Control the pump with a thermostat. Another idea is run the hot water through a coil like a car heater and add a low amp Quiet computer fan. circulation pumps use less than 1 amp and is very very quiet.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:32 AM   #65
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I would like to float an idea that I am going to do to my trailer. Tap into the hot water heater with a circulation pump. Run it through a base board heater that I am going to make out of 3/8 soft copper and get as much length as possible. Control the pump with a thermostat. Another idea is run the hot water through a coil like a car heater and add a low amp Quiet computer fan. circulation pumps use less than 1 amp and is very very quiet.
I think you will get tired of hearing your hot water heater come on/off as the water cools down circulating. Is it possible you can circulate it thru plastic tubing under the floor, radiant heat is better than convection heat and more efficient.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:04 AM   #66
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I think you will get tired of hearing your hot water heater come on/off as the water cools down circulating.
I would trade the water heater noise over the furnace any day.

The bast way to do the hydronic system is if you have one of the coach style water heaters with the heat exchanger in it. You can run a closed loop system with glycol or the like. This solves a bunch of problems with air accumulation and other issues with recircing your water heater water. Also the glycol mix absorbs and releases heat much better than the plain water. Both of the systems you mentioned work. I have seen both. Floor heating is very nice and Most even. But really difficult in a small fiberglass trailer with a simple plywood floor. If you have the coach water heater, you can modify a home base board (water not steam I believe) radiator to work for you. It sounds like you are quite aware that anything you use with you're drinking water needs to be food grade, Copper or stainless. Sounds like a really fun project.

Ken - I believe did the in floor radiant heating in his big foot renovation/extension. He has some good info in his log on it as I recall.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:18 AM   #67
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The frustrating thing I guess is that a much better heating system could be designed and built. Most of the elements of that system have been discussed in this thread. These campers are small, and their heat requirements are small. One of the fatal flaws of these Suburban type units is their requirement for large airflow. You barely need a whisper of air to circulate around a 16 foot trailer. Instead of cycling on and off to control the temp, there should be a variable flame. Imagine if your BBQ only operated on high, and you had to continually turn the thing on and off to regulate the heat <_<. That is how stupid and inefficient these things are. If you had a small PWM controlled fan and a variable flame, the furnace would barely run overnight to maintain a nice sleeping temp. It would only speed up when you demand a higher thermostat setting. It would probably double the run time on a battery and fuel tank too.

A Coleman lantern running overnight would provide enough heat to keep the chill off most nights.

But no.......we have to light a MIG jet engine every 30 - 40 minutes and run it for 10

David
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:27 AM   #68
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The frustrating thing I guess is that a much better heating system could be designed and built. Most of the elements of that system have been discussed in this thread. These campers are small, and their heat requirements are small. One of the fatal flaws of these Suburban type units is their requirement for large airflow. You barely need a whisper of air to circulate around a 16 foot trailer. Instead of cycling on and off to control the temp, there should be a variable flame. Imagine if your BBQ only operated on high, and you had to continually turn the thing on and off to regulate the heat <_<. That is how stupid and inefficient these things are. If you had a small PWM controlled fan and a variable flame, the furnace would barely run overnight to maintain a nice sleeping temp. It would only speed up when you demand a higher thermostat setting. It would probably double the run time on a battery and fuel tank too.

A Coleman lantern running overnight would provide enough heat to keep the chill off most nights.

But no.......we have to light a MIG jet engine every 30 - 40 minutes and run it for 10

David
There are better propane furnaces available. Lance, a truck camper and now trailer manufacturer, offers Atwood's 2 speed furnace which is a variable low/high speed 15-22,000 furnace which can operate at the lower speed if the owner selects. It comes on high and then drops down to the lower setting and has the digital thermostat option.In addition there is the 12,000 low draw 1.2 amp Atwood Everest heater which has a slower speed. The digital thermostat and it's placement should allow the furnace to run longer and then remain off longer, depending on your trailer's insulation and windows. Unless you have better insulation and windows, replacing the thermostat is futile, all your heat is leaving the furnace as quick as you provide it, retaining the heat is a better solution, IMHO.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:38 AM   #69
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Here's an interesting factoid that puts the issue into perspective in easily understood terms. A 1500 watt electric heater running on high continously puts out only 5,118 BTU/hr. How cold would it have to get before you could even stand to be in the trailer?
David
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:43 AM   #70
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There are better propane furnaces available. Lance, a truck camper and now trailer manufacturer, offers Atwood's 2 speed furnace which is a variable low/high speed 15-22,000 furnace which can operate at the lower speed if the owner selects. It comes on high and then drops down to the lower setting and has the digital thermostat option.In addition there is the 12,000 low draw 1.2 amp Atwood Everest heater which has a slower speed. The digital thermostat and it's placement should allow the furnace to run longer and then remain off longer, depending on your trailer's insulation and windows. Unless you have better insulation and windows, replacing the thermostat is futile, all your heat is leaving the furnace as quick as you provide it, retaining the heat is a better solution, IMHO.
Harley,
The Everest may be a better starting point. What you said about rate of lose is exactly right, and one reason that a lower continous output makes more sense.
David
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