Reflectix insulation - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-27-2005, 07:53 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
jack maloney's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1986 U-Haul CT13 ft
Posts: 494
Quote:
I used the polypropylene - rated at R12 in this application.
Can you source sheet polypropelene material? All I can find is electrical insulation. Thanks!
__________________

__________________
jack maloney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2005, 12:35 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Pete Dumbleton's Avatar
 
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
Send a message via Yahoo to Pete Dumbleton
Quote:
I used the polypropylene - rated at R12 in this application.
Quote:
Can you source sheet polypropelene material? All I can find is electrical insulation. Thanks!
Umm, maybe too many "e"s and not enuf "y"s ??? :76 Try also "visqueen" which is what the construction trades call sheet poly.
__________________

__________________
Pete Dumbleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2005, 02:50 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
...Umm, maybe too many "e"s and not enuf "y"s ??? :76 Try also "visqueen" which is what the construction trades call sheet poly.
In the British Visqueen product list (all I found readily in Google), all of the products appear to be thin membranes, rather insulating foams of any thickness. They are also probably all polyethylene, rather than polypropylene. who knows, maybe there's whole different product line in the U.S.

By the way, I had never heard of "visqueen" before today - it's just called "poly" around here are far as I know.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2005, 03:41 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Bill Abbay's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2002 21.5 ft Bigfoot / 2003 Chevy Duramax 4x4
California
Posts: 113
Quote:
By the way, I had never heard of "visqueen" before today - it's just called "poly" around here are far as I know.
Pete's just showing his ... maturity, there. Years ago, poly film, especially in the construction trades, was likely made by Visqueen. As more manufacturers got into the act, it was less likely to be, actually, "Visqueen", but the name stuck, like we call pull-up tissues "Kleenex". Not so much any more. More on Visqueen here.

Sometime you just gotta be old to know stuff.
__________________
Bill Abbay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 08:30 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
John & Sandy M's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1999 Scamp 16 ft
Posts: 130
In a former life I evaluated various insulated packaging for the shipment of drugs to hospitals and distribution warehouses (yes... I did drugs for many years!). Polystyrene (the stuff in inexpensive foam coolers etc.) foam has a R value of around 3 per inch and polyurethane foam about R7 (the stuff in high quality coolers and better refrigerators). The insulating quality of the polyurethane foam is due to the size of the bubbles in the foam and due to the use of freon in it's production. I found by thermocouple measurement of temp. changes in a hot box (this was aroung 55C as I recall). Urethane foam with aluminized mylar bonded to both sides performed 3-4 times better than the polysytrene foam as a packaging insulator.

As for usage in a fiberglass trailer? Probably could be done but would be expensive and difficult to use
__________________
John & Sandy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 02:44 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
...Polystyrene (the stuff in inexpensive foam coolers etc.) foam has a R value of around 3 per inch and polyurethane foam about R7 (the stuff in high quality coolers and better refrigerators). The insulating quality of the polyurethane foam is due to the size of the bubbles in the foam and due to the use of freon in it's production...
Lots of good information!

The "stuff in inexpensive foam coolers" is polystyrene foam, usually molded from beads, but better polystyrene insulation such as StyrofoamŪ is extruded. The extruded foams have better structure, and thus higher R-values; for instance, most StyrofoamŪ products are R-5 per inch. And no, this isn't an ad for Dow products...

Looking for background information for this discussion, I found that there is a Insulation.org web site. Obvious, in hindsight...
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 03:16 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Bigfoot Mike's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: Bigfoot 25 ft
Posts: 7,317
[b]Here is some info on R values.
Quote:
Below is a list of the R-values of some materials for a 1" thickness. Multiply this value by the actual thickness to get the insulating value of other thickness. For example, wood has an R = 1.25, so a 3/4" sheet has an R around 1.25 * 0.750 = 0.94.

Add R values when materials are sandwiched. For example, a wall of 0.25" of plywood backed by an inch of Styrofoam would have a total R value of (1.25 * 0.25) + 5.3 = 0.3 + 5.3 = 5.6. A floor made up of a 0.25" plywood sheet, two sheets of 0.75" Styrofoam, and a 0.5" plywood sheet, would have an R value of (1.25 * 0.25) + (5.3 * 0.75) + (5.3 * 0.75) + (1.25 * 0.5) = 0.3 + 3.975 + 3.975 + 0.6 = 8.85.

<blockquote> * Aluminized bubble pack, R ~ 27 based on 1" thickness
<blockquote>o Actual Refletix product is 5/16" thick. According to the lable on the roll my hardware store has out: R = 8.3 roof, 14.3 floor, 9.8 side
o This is so good, I'm skeptical. Two sandwiched would only be 5/8" with a roof R = 16.6, floor R = 28.6, and side R = 19.6.
o SolarShield makes a similar product but I don't have data</blockquote>
* Rigid Urethane Foam, R = 7
* Styrofoam sheet, R = 5.3, k = 0.19
* Fiberglass, R = 4
* Carpet, R = 2.6
* Vermiculite, R = 2
* Wood, R = 1.25</blockquote>
__________________
Bigfoot Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 05:18 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Bill Abbay's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2002 21.5 ft Bigfoot / 2003 Chevy Duramax 4x4
California
Posts: 113
It's interesting how, when we discuss Reflectix in the context of other materials, we keep coming up against this credibility thing.

BTW, I've always tended to think in terms of U-factor, the reciprical of R-value. The units of R-value is square foot * deg (dt) * hour/ Btu. So just what is that mean ? U-factor seems much more intuitive. Mike's R-8.85, above, would become

0.116 Btu/hour per square foot per deg(difference across the assembly) To use this, if you had 100 square feet of that R-value and it was 70 deg inside and 30 deg outside you'd have

0.116 x 100 x 40 = 464 Btu/hr loss through the surface(s).

Windows, doors, surfaces with higher or lower R-values need to be area weighed, but this is the general idea.

Now, isn't that easier?
__________________
Bill Abbay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 09:01 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
John & Sandy M's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1999 Scamp 16 ft
Posts: 130
The following is a government site for insulatiing materials... government insulation facts The highest for the urethane foam is R9/inch which is accomplished using a reflective foil in addition to the insulation. Performing a internet search on the topic gave me quite a few references to sprayed on urethane insulation products which could certainly have application to RV insulation. The part that is confusing is the reflection of radient (infra-red radiation) and conduction (transfer of molecular energy). The bubble foil works great reflecting radient energy like heat from the sun but doesn't work worth a flip preventing the transfer of energy from one molecule to another (it could if thre were a vacuum in the bubble... I actually evaluated a packaging constructed like this and it works great BUT you don't want to know the price$$$
__________________
John & Sandy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 07:44 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
Myron Leski's Avatar
 
Name: Myron
Trailer: 19' Escape
NM
Posts: 664
Registry
Alright, lets see if I can make practical sense of all this reflectix data.

1. It is over-rated as an insulator but better than nothing.
2. It's greatest value is as protection against condensation.
3. It's cheap, and it works as a placebo.

Do I have it right?
__________________
Myron Leski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2005, 08:16 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
John & Sandy M's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1999 Scamp 16 ft
Posts: 130
=============================================
Alright, lets see if I can make practical sense of all this reflectix data.

1. It is over-rated as an insulator but better than nothing.
2. It's greatest value is as protection against condensation.
3. It's cheap, and it works as a placebo.

Do I have it right?
=============================================
I think I would add a #4. works great as far as reflecting radient energy which is extremely important in the summer to prevent solar heating inside the trailer (for us this is probably more important than it's use as an insulator since we live in the SE).

From a practical standpoint the trailer is slow to warm up in the sun during the summer and the walls are noticably cool/cold when temperatures get down into the 20's in the winter.
__________________
John & Sandy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 12:14 AM   #26
Member
 
Trailer: 1975 Boler
Posts: 62
so with all of this great information, what is a good insulator for the trailer?
mine has no insulation, and i'd like to add something to the walls to make those cold nights a bit nicer. it would be nice if the insulation had a nice look to it as well.
is there anything out there that is affordable, looks nice, and actually works?
__________________
Erik J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 11:02 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Trailer: 84 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 725
Erik -- I saw this thread several months ago. It seemed, and still does, like the real-life issue is circled, circled and circled, but no one went in for the kill.

We had a Compact Jr many moons ago, with no insulation. It was a pain with all the condensate dripping. The only way to help that situation was to pop the top up and leave all the screen covers open. Worked fair in fair weather, but when it was cold that was another story.

Moved up to a 1960 Streamline. All aluminum construction with spun fiberglass house type insulation between inner and outer skins. The ribs also had some thick rubber tape to squelch the cold bleed-through.

Next a 1970 Avion, similar to the Streamline, but the insulation is poured in foam.

Now a 1984 Scamp with the ensolite stuff.

From practical experience, the Streamline was best, followed by Avion, followed by Scamp with Compact getting a zero. I expected the Avion to be better than the Streamline, but it apparently didn't have the rubber tape on the ribs, because it drips profusely at the ribs. It also seems to be quite a bit harder to heat.

Interestingly I consider the Scamp to be just marginally below the Avion. The ensolite does a pretty good job. The real problem with it is it's crinkly surface. In our neck of the woods, western Washington, the mildew gets into those crinkles and it is a real problem cleaning it up. Clorox does a good job, but does me in, in the process. A smooth surface that you could just wipe down would be great.

I would be very aprehensive about the 'rat fur'. I don't know how you would clean the stuff. To put this in context, my beautiful wife was born and raised in Viet Nam. She insists on cooking three square meals a day, complete with saute'd vege slices and meats in fish sauce and all the rest of the culinary delights from that country. Without a doubt this contributes overwhelmingly to the growing of mildew and other baddies in our Scamp.

So what might not work out for us would be fine for another.

Check out the blue camper foam sold at Wal-Mart and others. It is flexible, fairly inexpensive and sold in sheets 2ft X 6ft. I remember a roll being priced about $7. I would expect the blue could be changed to something else with a good latex paint. If you wanted more shine, perhaps enamel could be applied over the latex. You'd just have to try it. If it works out good, let us know. If it doesn't work out, let us know.

We are a knowing goup on this forum. We just don't know it all, but would like to know more.
__________________
Loren G. Hedahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 03:06 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Name: Donna D
Trailer: Escape 5.0 TA, 2014
Oregon
Posts: 24,433
You may also want to check out these websites from our Helpful-Links page:
Ensolite

__________________

__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insulation Rick T Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 8 03-22-2009 07:56 AM
Reflectix needed Bonnie Classified Archives 6 04-17-2008 08:17 PM
Add Reflectix Under Mattress Pete Dumbleton Modifications, Alterations and Updates 0 04-16-2008 11:36 PM
Applying vinyl on reflectix- need help Mo22 Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 3 05-28-2007 12:58 PM
Insulation Willie Brown Ft. Langley B.C. Rallies 0 12-31-1969 07:00 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.