replacing chargr/converter with smart charger - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-03-2012, 10:06 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Borden's Avatar
 
Name: Borden and Carole
Trailer: Boler 1978 17' 4" Earlton Ont Model
Ontario
Posts: 1,002
Registry
We use a solar panel with auto top-up circuit connected to the battery from Canadian Tire.
3 way Fridge is run on propane only to conserve battery for lights and other needs as we are not near a power connection, although the current site has a hand pump well.
__________________

__________________
1978 Ontario made Boler
Borden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:33 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,311
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
Does the distincton between hooked to and powered (getting juice) matter? As a matter of course, I think, people either hit their internal breakers or pull their shore power cord BEFORE plugging in the trailer plug. The converter is connected but not doing anything. Wouldn't the same apply to a battery charger. What part of this would apply to a combination of solar panel feed and converter feed to battery at the same time? Downsides? If "inputs" are offline, does it matter how many ring lugs are under the wing nuts?

jack
Actually you can connect several charging sources and have them all active at the same time. Charging circuits detect battery voltage to determine when to stop charging in order to NOT overcharge. (overcharge mean to boil out the liquid). The device with highest charging voltage will be the winner and all the rest will stop trying to charge. There's many solar installations where the solar and the converter are on at the same time. In my case I know where the converter shut off point is, it's when the battery is at 12.2 Volts according to manufacturer. (I called and asked). Any charging device with higher than 12.2 charging volts will cause the converter charger to stop attempting to charge.

Hope some this makes sense.
__________________

__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 04:04 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
rabbit's Avatar
 
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
Yes, thanks Byron, your answer is helpful and not at all what I thought.

Jack
__________________
rabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 05:23 AM   #18
Raz
Senior Member
 
Raz's Avatar
 
Name: Raz
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Vermont
Posts: 4,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
So do you charge your battery in transit from the tow vehicle?
(that's a second charger across the battery, with the first one connected).
Yes. But a battery is not a power supply ( please see post #7). What we are talking about here is connecting a battery tender(DC power supply) made overseas to a low price point, that will be left unattended for long periods of time, and that is plugged into a 120 Vac main. This battery tender will not only be in parallel with a rather expensive converter but also, through the distribution panel, anything else that runs on DC in the trailer. Ever met Mr. Murphy? As I said " While in all likelihood nothing will happen, it's easier to disconnect the converter than have to explain and repair the unexpected." Raz
__________________
Raz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:51 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
rabbit's Avatar
 
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
Also thought-inspiring, Raz. If I were actually capable of thinking about the governance of electrons, I'm certain I could mold these views into a coherent synthesis. But not today!

Jack
__________________
rabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 11:44 AM   #20
Member
 
Name: Kenneth
Trailer: Casita 17 Freedom DeLuxe
British Columbia
Posts: 78
Francesca, you are at the pinnacle of those whose choices would make some Trillium campers unhappy, should your camping style be forced on them, but you'd be very welcome in our camping world! What you describe seems very similar to our backpacking days- without digging a hip hole. We used a tea light for lighting in our pup tent. We do not cook in our Trillium- all is done on a Bar-B-Q, and two burner camping stove from our VW camper days in Europe, including coffee.
Don't be fooled by the iPhone- we take it for emergency use on the road only, as roaming charges are very high with phones on a CDN plan seeking service in USA. It has never been used on a trip. Thanks be. The computer is taken along for my wife to write her daily email to her sister in AUS, but they are not sent until we get back home. She often doesn't bother to write. The Net is never surfed, as we do not connect to wifi. I have my Kobo reader library in the Mac, and have used the Mac to read if my Kobo eReader is flat, but yes, this is more hi tech than you, certainly. Our frig is confined to 110 because I cannot get the propane to light, and cannot be bothered taking the trailer to the dealer who sold us the new frig to service it. Maybe next spring. . . . DON'T ever consider using ANY battery to run your frig, you will wreck both the battery and the food. I replaced the battery that the previous owner had installed because it died the second trip we made, and I chose AGM because I wanted to move the battery inside, under the front settee. I used AGM batteries in our sailboat because they too were "inside" and do not leak or gas- you can turn them upside down! AGMs like a slow /low rate of charge, so they are perfect for matching with solar panels and trickle chargers. If you buy an AGM, buy a little intelligent trickle charger for about 25 bucks or a more expensive charger which allows you to choose a charge rate safe for AGM batteries. I think our cost about 100 bucks CDN, but we CDNs always pay higher prices than you do. I am on p2 of the thread and I don't want to roll back because it will probably cause me to lose this post, so I will post this and check to se if I've answered your Qs.
__________________
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 11:59 AM   #21
Member
 
Name: Kenneth
Trailer: Casita 17 Freedom DeLuxe
British Columbia
Posts: 78
Francesca, an AGM, despite its technology, does no more than any other battery -it simply supplies 12V power. Adding a circuit simply means as I mentioned in an earlier post- two wires from the battery to the frig with a switch to cut it off/out. Yes, I know there is a voltage selector on the frig. . . . have you ever seen those funny guys wearing belts and braces in tandem. . . . But, I would not wire/choose to use the house battery in this way, because we get hooked up in the state parks and so always have 110V. And it would not work for more than an hour and destructively flatten the battery. Don't do it.
__________________
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 01:16 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,543
Registry
Thanks for the AGM explanation!
And here's a tip on:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Our frig is confined to 110 because I cannot get the propane to light, and cannot be bothered taking the trailer to the dealer who sold us the new frig to service it.
It sounds like the fridge is a newer so-called "3-way"...

If I understand correctly that there's no connection from the battery to the fridge, that's probably why you can't run it on propane (when unplugged?)...most if not all such (newer) fridges require 12v power for the controls during propane operation.

I'm unclear as to how that power is supplied when plugged in- it may be that the fridge will convert shorepower to 12v. You might try propane operation when plugged in and find out!

Francesca
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 06:24 PM   #23
Member
 
Name: Kenneth
Trailer: Casita 17 Freedom DeLuxe
British Columbia
Posts: 78
I've not heard this before, Francesca. I think it is an urban/rural myth. I braved the rain and cold and went out and unzipped the cocoon on our trailer and sat down and read the manual for about the third time. No mention of 12V required to control the gas control. Nor does our domestic hot water system. The thermocouple produces the electricity to keep the supply valves open. The frig is a new three-way Dometic 2193 model. I did read that on 110V it uses about 1 amp and on 12V over 10 amps, so that is why it will drain a battery in about an hour! I checked with our trailering neighbour and he said that it was nonsense that these little frigs needed power to control anything when on propane. In the spring I'll also check with the RV supply house where I bought it, but when I bought this frig the guy there said he would never connect the 12V for the reasons I stated previously. I sort of wish it were true because it would solve my problem. What the manual does say is that both 12V and 110V switches should be off when you select gas.
__________________
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 06:43 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,543
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I've not heard this before, Francesca. I think it is an urban/rural myth. I braved the rain and cold and went out and unzipped the cocoon on our trailer and sat down and read the manual for about the third time. No mention of 12V required to control the gas control. Nor does our domestic hot water system. The thermocouple produces the electricity to keep the supply valves open. The frig is a new three-way Dometic 2193 model. I did read that on 110V it uses about 1 amp and on 12V over 10 amps, so that is why it will drain a battery in about an hour! I checked with our trailering neighbour and he said that it was nonsense that these little frigs needed power to control anything when on propane. In the spring I'll also check with the RV supply house where I bought it, but when I bought this frig the guy there said he would never connect the 12V for the reasons I stated previously. I sort of wish it were true because it would solve my problem. What the manual does say is that both 12V and 110V switches should be off when you select gas.
Glad to hear I was wrong!

On the other hand, I s'pose it would have been nice if that little detail could have solved your gas-ignition problem...

Sorry to have sent you out into the rain/wet for nothing!

Francesca
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:10 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,311
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Raz View Post
Yes. But a battery is not a power supply ( please see post #7). What we are talking about here is connecting a battery tender(DC power supply) made overseas to a low price point, that will be left unattended for long periods of time, and that is plugged into a 120 Vac main. This battery tender will not only be in parallel with a rather expensive converter but also, through the distribution panel, anything else that runs on DC in the trailer. Ever met Mr. Murphy? As I said " While in all likelihood nothing will happen, it's easier to disconnect the converter than have to explain and repair the unexpected." Raz

Apparently you have no idea what a Battery Tender or other like items are. They are low current battery chargers with desulfating modes built in. They made to connect to batteries for long periods of time and keep the battery in good usable fully charged condition. They are more than just a power supply.

FYI.. The reason for NOT connecting power supplies in parallel I think are a little different than your thinking. Older none constant automatic switch over supplies when connected in parallel one supply carries the load and the other just sits there doing nothing. There's been many times where we've connected supplies in parallel and adjusted them to share the load when needed. Granted this was not long term, meaning years.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 10:20 PM   #26
Member
 
Name: Kenneth
Trailer: Casita 17 Freedom DeLuxe
British Columbia
Posts: 78
Yeah, right, Francesca! I'm all for simple cures that take minimum time, effort and expense. However, the good news is I've received a plausible explanation via a private message, and I will follow it up, and if successful, will shout the message writer's name and the solution to the heavens- and on this forum.
__________________
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:24 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles View Post
...most if not all such (newer) fridges require 12v power for the controls during propane operation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
...I think it is an urban/rural myth. I braved the rain and cold and went out and unzipped the cocoon on our trailer and sat down and read the manual for about the third time. No mention of 12V required to control the gas control. Nor does our domestic hot water system. The thermocouple produces the electricity to keep the supply valves open. The frig is a new three-way Dometic 2193 model.
Not a myth, and I don't know why anyone would dismiss anything as a myth based on the characteristics of a single model of appliance. Please read the current topic Casita refrigerator needs 12 volts for the details - it would make no sense to repeat it all here.

The Dometic 2193 manual doesn't mention needing 12V DC power for the controls, because it doesn't need it, because it doesn't have electronic controls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I checked with our trailering neighbour and he said that it was nonsense that these little frigs needed power to control anything when on propane.
Perhaps the trailering neighbor doesn't know everything about RV refrigerators, or perhaps "little" is just not precise enough. The need for 12V DC power for controls has nothing to do with refrigerator size; the small single-door RM 2354 (for instance) is an electronically controlled/ignited unit which will require 12V DC power regardless of cooling power source, or as Dometic says in the manual
Quote:
This refrigerator model require a continuous 12 volt DC
supply to maintain the automatic energy system.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 11:42 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Kenny Strong's Avatar
 
Name: kenny
Trailer: Bigfoot 13'
Utah
Posts: 250
convertor

Kenneth Why will the convertor not work with an AGM battery? My Dometic is a 3 way; worthless on 12 volt, 120 very good, gas very good. when hooked up to 120 volt, it has a separate 120 volt plug in.... does it go thru the convertor?,,, I don't know. My solar panel charges the battery. The convertor in my 93 BigFoot does not charge the battery when on 120 volt. I thought this convertor would be a nice up grade. I have an AGM battery in the Toe.

Thanks also Kenneth
__________________

__________________
Kenny Strong is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Converter/charger Steve Hammel Electrical | Charging, Systems, Solar and Generators 23 10-04-2012 09:41 PM
Converter/Charger Shopping Michele B Electrical | Charging, Systems, Solar and Generators 7 08-22-2010 12:24 AM
Converter/Charger Sharon W Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 24 08-01-2009 07:39 PM
Upgrading Convertor to Convertor/Smart Charger Booker B. Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 13 05-20-2008 08:17 PM
Converter/charger Legacy Posts Care and Feeding of Molded Fiberglass Trailers 31 02-02-2003 08:47 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.