replacing chargr/converter with smart charger

[Wanderer]

Francesca, an AGM, despite its technology, does no more than any other battery -it simply supplies 12V power. Adding a circuit simply means as I mentioned in an earlier post- two wires from the battery to the frig with a switch to cut it off/out. Yes, I know there is a voltage selector on the frig. . . . have you ever seen those funny guys wearing belts and braces in tandem. . . . But, I would not wire/choose to use the house battery in this way, because we get hooked up in the state parks and so always have 110V. And it would not work for more than an hour and destructively flatten the battery. Don't do it.

[Francesca Knowles]

Thanks for the AGM explanation!
And here's a tip on:

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Our frig is confined to 110 because I cannot get the propane to light, and cannot be bothered taking the trailer to the dealer who sold us the new frig to service it.

It sounds like the fridge is a newer so-called "3-way"...

If I understand correctly that there's no connection from the battery to the fridge, that's probably why you can't run it on propane (when unplugged?)...most if not all such (newer) fridges require 12v power for the controls during propane operation.

I'm unclear as to how that power is supplied when plugged in- it may be that the fridge will convert shorepower to 12v. You might try propane operation when plugged in and find out!

Francesca

[Wanderer]

I've not heard this before, Francesca. I think it is an urban/rural myth. I braved the rain and cold and went out and unzipped the cocoon on our trailer and sat down and read the manual for about the third time. No mention of 12V required to control the gas control. Nor does our domestic hot water system. The thermocouple produces the electricity to keep the supply valves open. The frig is a new three-way Dometic 2193 model. I did read that on 110V it uses about 1 amp and on 12V over 10 amps, so that is why it will drain a battery in about an hour! I checked with our trailering neighbour and he said that it was nonsense that these little frigs needed power to control anything when on propane. In the spring I'll also check with the RV supply house where I bought it, but when I bought this frig the guy there said he would never connect the 12V for the reasons I stated previously. I sort of wish it were true because it would solve my problem. What the manual does say is that both 12V and 110V switches should be off when you select gas.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

I've not heard this before, Francesca. I think it is an urban/rural myth. I braved the rain and cold and went out and unzipped the cocoon on our trailer and sat down and read the manual for about the third time. No mention of 12V required to control the gas control. Nor does our domestic hot water system. The thermocouple produces the electricity to keep the supply valves open. The frig is a new three-way Dometic 2193 model. I did read that on 110V it uses about 1 amp and on 12V over 10 amps, so that is why it will drain a battery in about an hour! I checked with our trailering neighbour and he said that it was nonsense that these little frigs needed power to control anything when on propane. In the spring I'll also check with the RV supply house where I bought it, but when I bought this frig the guy there said he would never connect the 12V for the reasons I stated previously. I sort of wish it were true because it would solve my problem. What the manual does say is that both 12V and 110V switches should be off when you select gas.

Glad to hear I was wrong!

On the other hand, I s'pose it would have been nice if that little detail could have solved your gas-ignition problem...

Sorry to have sent you out into the rain/wet for nothing!

Francesca

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by P. Raz

Yes. But a battery is not a power supply ( please see post #7). What we are talking about here is connecting a battery tender(DC power supply) made overseas to a low price point, that will be left unattended for long periods of time, and that is plugged into a 120 Vac main. This battery tender will not only be in parallel with a rather expensive converter but also, through the distribution panel, anything else that runs on DC in the trailer. Ever met Mr. Murphy? As I said " While in all likelihood nothing will happen, it's easier to disconnect the converter than have to explain and repair the unexpected." Raz

Apparently you have no idea what a Battery Tender or other like items are. They are low current battery chargers with desulfating modes built in. They made to connect to batteries for long periods of time and keep the battery in good usable fully charged condition. They are more than just a power supply.

FYI.. The reason for NOT connecting power supplies in parallel I think are a little different than your thinking. Older none constant automatic switch over supplies when connected in parallel one supply carries the load and the other just sits there doing nothing. There's been many times where we've connected supplies in parallel and adjusted them to share the load when needed. Granted this was not long term, meaning years.

[Wanderer]

Yeah, right, Francesca! I'm all for simple cures that take minimum time, effort and expense. However, the good news is I've received a plausible explanation via a private message, and I will follow it up, and if successful, will shout the message writer's name and the solution to the heavens- and on this forum.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

...most if not all such (newer) fridges require 12v power for the controls during propane operation.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

...I think it is an urban/rural myth. I braved the rain and cold and went out and unzipped the cocoon on our trailer and sat down and read the manual for about the third time. No mention of 12V required to control the gas control. Nor does our domestic hot water system. The thermocouple produces the electricity to keep the supply valves open. The frig is a new three-way Dometic 2193 model.

Not a myth, and I don't know why anyone would dismiss anything as a myth based on the characteristics of a single model of appliance. Please read the current topic Casita refrigerator needs 12 volts for the details - it would make no sense to repeat it all here.

The Dometic 2193 manual doesn't mention needing 12V DC power for the controls, because it doesn't need it, because it doesn't have electronic controls.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

I checked with our trailering neighbour and he said that it was nonsense that these little frigs needed power to control anything when on propane.

Perhaps the trailering neighbor doesn't know everything about RV refrigerators, or perhaps "little" is just not precise enough. The need for 12V DC power for controls has nothing to do with refrigerator size; the small single-door RM 2354 (for instance) is an electronically controlled/ignited unit which will require 12V DC power regardless of cooling power source, or as Dometic says in the manual

This refrigerator model require a continuous 12 volt DC
supply to maintain the automatic energy system.

[Kenny Strong]

Kenneth Why will the convertor not work with an AGM battery? My Dometic is a 3 way; worthless on 12 volt, 120 very good, gas very good. when hooked up to 120 volt, it has a separate 120 volt plug in.... does it go thru the convertor?,,, I don't know. My solar panel charges the battery. The convertor in my 93 BigFoot does not charge the battery when on 120 volt. I thought this convertor would be a nice up grade. I have an AGM battery in the Toe.

Thanks also Kenneth

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Kenny Strong

Kenneth Why will the convertor not work with an AGM battery? My Dometic is a 3 way; worthless on 12 volt, 120 very good, gas very good. when hooked up to 120 volt, it has a separate 120 volt plug in.... does it go thru the convertor?,,, I don't know. My solar panel charges the battery. The convertor in my 93 BigFoot does not charge the battery when on 120 volt. I thought this convertor would be a nice up grade. I have an AGM battery in the Toe.

Thanks also Kenneth

I'll try to answer this for you.
The converter is used to charge the battery and power the 12 Volt system when connected to shore power. If you've got a solar panel to charge the battery a converter is not necessary.
AGM vs flooded cell batteries;
AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) are simply a battery technology without liquid. Can be used in any attitude, including upside down. Can be used in an enclosed location.
Flooded cell batteries are typical of automobile batteries with liquid. Can NOT be used except upright or the liquid will run out. Are vented and need to used in a vented location.

For practical purposes in our trailers they're interchangeable and be charged from the same charging source.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Wanderer]

Kenneth, The Progressive Dynamics 9100 series converter is a superb converter for your twelve volt needs. This is why I bought one. On their website, they state that the Wizard Intelligent charging module is not suitable for charging AGM batteries. Simple as that. So I didn't buy the Wizard charging module. You say you have a separate plug from your frig to provide 110 V. Your 110 V comes from an external source, not from within your trailer, even though it enters your trailer. It has nothing to do with your 110V needs for your frig. This converter also has a separate plug that you put into a 110 supply in your trailer, or from a power box at your trailer site. There cannot be any conflict, OK?

[mmeyer]

[QUOTE=Wanderer;349148]Kenneth, On their website, they state that the Wizard Intelligent charging module is not suitable for charging AGM batteries.

Interesting! when I go to the Charge wizard part of the web site and read the info for the PD9105 which is for the 9100 series converters it says that is is for " lead acid and AGM type batteries" Didn't scrutinize the rest of the website to see where the conflict may be.
Michael J

[Kenny Strong]

Okay,,,as Mike has found out ALL is clear now! Thanks Byron, Kenneth and Mike.

[Wanderer]

Mike, I went to the web site and read all the data for the converters and the Wizard again, and NOWHERE can I now find any reference to unsuitability for AGM batteries! I think they must have updated the Wizard to use with both types of battery. So, I went back to the Net and bought one on eBay just now. THANK YOU! I will read the literature that comes with it carefully before installing- it may limit you to using the NORMAL setting. BOOST mode may be too quick for AGMs, I know my present smart charger is a slow charge rate for AGM. Thank you once again. Yet, I distinctly read, and rather disappointedly, under the Wizard info that it was not suitable, last time I looked at it. Very strange, because I was hoping it would say it was suitable! I will be able to install my present smart charger in my Miata boot, right beside the Optima Red Top.

[Wanderer]

Brian , I read the full thread, and now I see what you are saying. My neighbour is very well educated in most aspects of trailer stuff. The operative word is not "little" it is the full phrase"these little frigs" He was standing in my driveway with my frig manual in his hand, pointing in turn at my trailer with the new Dometic 2193, then the open door of the garage where my old Dometic 211 (now a beer frig in summer) sits and then back over his shoulder to his little Surfsider trailer with its Norcold, all propane/plus dual voltage frigs, all manually controlled from the back of the frig, with no 12 volt connections. (he never runs his frigs on anything but propane under way or in RV parks. Says they work best on propane)) He also said, though It was not relevant, to me at the time, that the bigger Dometic in his larger trailer had a "digital dashboard" of stuff he could very well get along without because it needed electrical power to it all times, even on propane. Urban Myth is not a good term, but I didn't base this judgement on one model or make of frig. I'm ashamed to have used the term "Myth" because it insults the life works of Burton and Campbell and a host of other serious scholars. I think I picked up the term from a misnamed US TV program. But I do think this 12V thing a much misunderstood idea, and obviously, new small frigs without need for electronics or electrics in propane mode are still manufactured.

[Francesca Knowles]

Hey, Kenneth!

Speaking of "propane mode"

I understand that you haven't been able to get your fridge to work on propane and wondered if you've tried this old pro's trick:

Light an inside stove burner first to get the gas flowing, leave it burning, and go outside and try to light the fridge.

It's thought that especially in cases like yours where you use the stove/gas system little if at all, lighting the inside burner gets the gas fully flowing, and available at full pressure at the ignition point.

Good luck!

Francesca

[Wanderer]

Francesca, you are worth your weight in gold. . . . or propane. Thank you. Merry Christmas. Is it washington state or Washington DC?

[Francesca Knowles]

I hope that means you got the fridge going...

Per my location:

I'm in the real Seat of American Power and Influence: Washington State!

Francesca

[Wanderer]

NO, my tanks are under cover, removed, disconnected from the trailer, but I believe you have pointed me to the solution, and will do it once the snow has come and gone and I can bring the tanks back to the Trillium. thank you. We love Washington State parks and the hiking there, especially Larrabee/Fairhaven.