Replacing RM2354. Dometic / Norcold?

[Nik]

Bigfoot 17'. I bought it with no fridge. Time for a fridge.
The hole is 29 3/4" H. 20 1/2 W. 21 3/8 D.

Dometic RM2354 is an obvious choice. But I could go Norcold N300.3 (N302.3 also - but I can't find the difference).

I understand the Norcold can run without the 12v needed to keep the Dometic running.

I'm interested in opinions about these two brands in three way units.

Thanks!

[ZachO]

Nice work on the Bigfoot!

I have no experience with Norcold, but depending on what type of camping you like to do and whether you have or plan to have solar panels on the roof, not using any 12v draw is definitely a plus. It adds up.

Otherwise, from what I can see, both units will likely cause you the same amount of frustration and despair.

I have a very complicated relationship with RV fridges.

[Nik]

"both units will likely cause you the same amount of frustration and despair."

Yes, I look at this expensive junk and feel awful buying either brand.

I'm pretty much a solid boondocker. Because of that I am thinking the Norcold might be the way to go - less battery drain, but overcome-able with one panel which I'll likely get anyway.

I'd like to know what technology allows the Norcold to not need the DC. And does it make for more a troublesome unit - more breaking down?

[Nik]

It seems like the N300 and N302 are now called N305 and N306, but the Norcold site doesn't say what the difference is. Probably color.

Anyone know how these new models are improved over the old?

[Jack L]

I run my Dometic on propane most of the time. My Dometic will not cool with 12 volts, but it does require 12 volts for the controls. The amount of 12 volt power needed is very little. The burner ignites with a 12 volt igniter, so there is no pilot light. The units that do not require 12 volts require a pilot light. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

[John in Santa Cruz]

my son is trying to convince me I should have a DC compressor fridge instead of a absorption thing and power it with more solar and batteries.... but he camps in the wide open deserts of nevada and I'm more likely to be camping in forested mountains, so I dunno. compressor fridge gets a LOT colder in warm weather, thats for sure.

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Nik; I'm pretty much a solid boondocker. Because of that I am thinking the Norcold might be the way to go - less battery drain, [I

but[/I] overcome-able with one panel which I'll likely get anyway.
I'd like to know what technology allows the Norcold to not need the DC. And does it make for more a troublesome unit - more breaking down?

I had to replace a refer years ago and went with a 3 way Norcold over the Dometic that died. It was probably the best refer I've ever had, cooled down to a decent temp in just a couple hours, LP or 110 but it did need the 12V feed. I only boon dock and never had a problem with battery drain even after two weeks. YMMV

[Gerry]

I went to a Norclod when my Dometic craped out on me but since I never had any luck running the Dometic on 12V I opted to go with just a 2 way with the Norcold. Saved some money.
The temp norcold is alittle hard to regulate when on LP and is very sensitive to ambient temps outside.
Found that in early spring or fall camping the food may be frozen in fridge after a cold night but just be cool if the day was warming up to the 60's.
After trial and error, one can adjust the thermostate but it will take a few nights to get it right.

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by Nik

Bigfoot 17'. I bought it with no fridge. Time for a fridge.
The hole is 29 3/4" H. 20 1/2 W. 21 3/8 D.

Dometic RM2354 is an obvious choice. But I could go Norcold N300.3 (N302.3 also - but I can't find the difference).

I understand the Norcold can run without the 12v needed to keep the Dometic running.

I'm interested in opinions about these two brands in three way units.

Thanks!

I'm wondering if you are confusing a 2 way vs 3 way fridge. The 2 way runs on 110V and propane. The 3 way runs on 110V, propane and 12 volt. The 12 volt is only good if you are driving and your alternator will put out enough to run the fridge and keep your batteries at full use voltage. I run mine if it's not to hot on 12V so that I don't have to shut off the fridge when getting gas. You want to never have a pilot on anything when refueling. If it is real hot the 12V doesn't do a real good job I have both of these types of fridges Norcold and Dometic. I have a Casita and a small motorhome. You have to have 12V for both to ignite the pilot if it has an automatic striker and to keep it going since the 12V also runs the temperature control. If you have a constant pilot it puts out a lot of heat which is bad for keeping the fridge running efficiently. So make sure it has the piezo igniter. If you find a fridge that doesn't use 12V to keep it running as far as the temperature control I'd love to know how they do that. As far as brands I've had good luck with both as long as they have a temperature control that you set and not an automatic one. The automatic ones do not keep food at a constant temperature. They are bad for freezing or getting to warm and you have no control over them. I Googled the 2 Norcold fridges and the 302.3 is a 2 way. The 300.3 is a 3 way. Hope this helps. I would not go with a 110V only because you would have to have extra batteries, solar, etc. I've camped for 40 plus years and have not had an issue with the propane run ones. I've had issues with the constant pilot light ones. I'm a woman and am very particular about keeping my food at a safe and cold temperature. Not saying men don't care but if you are the food purchaser and cook you know what you want and how you want to keep it.

[ZachO]

Nope, he's not. Most modern fridges need 12V draw on propane, to power the circuit board activities.

My fridge, an early 90s Dometic, does not use any 12V when on propane, which is one reason I want to stick with it. I need to push a spark ignitor to light it. Modern units have a small amount of 12V draw while on propane.

Well, you've got one vote saying Norcold regulates temps better and one vote saying it regulates them worse, but a couple votes saying they great, either way. My experience is that it's a complete crapshoot. Who built the unit, and on what day, along with how it's installed all play into how much frustration you'll have down the road.

I'd just contact Norcold with questions.

I stand by my original statement

[Alex Adams]

I looked at 3-way gas absorption fridges. Based on the performance and power draw I decided to go with a 12 volt compression fridge. The one I am getting is the NovaCool R3000. It draws 2.2 amps at 12 volts when running:

Nova Kool, refrigerators, freezers, Marine, RV, Truck

The comparable dometic 3-way fridge draws 12 amps when running on 12 volt and I couldn't find the draw for when it is on gas. With the NovaCool I don't have to do any gas plumbing or worry about an open flame in tunnels, at gas stations, etc.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by ZachO

Nope, he's not. Most modern fridges need 12V draw on propane, to power the circuit board activities.

My fridge, an early 90s Dometic, does not use any 12V when on propane, which is one reason I want to stick with it. I need to push a spark ignitor to light it. Modern units have a small amount of 12V draw while on propane.

Well, you've got one vote saying Norcold regulates temps better and one vote saying it regulates them worse, but a couple votes saying they great, either way. My experience is that it's a complete crapshoot. Who built the unit, and on what day, along with how it's installed all play into how much frustration you'll have down the road.
...

My 2015 Scamp has a Dometic RM2410, which does NOT require electric power to operate on propane. It is apparently still available for sale but it looks like it will not fit the OP's space.

Venting mode on: IMHO it makes no sense at all to build a absorption fridge that runs on propane but still requires electric power for a control board that does little but make operation more convenient for the owner. Venting mode off.

Speaking of venting, I'm no expert but it seems to me that the biggest factors affecting absorption fridge effectiveness is roof vent vs side vent (roof vent helps a lot) along with installation and insulation details. That of course along with the ambient temperature and how often it is opened or how much items are pre-chilled.

[RV Doctor]

If you are big into Boondocking and have sufficient solar output why not look at NovaCool. They use a Danfoss compressor and perform very well. No need for external venting as no combustion process.
I am a Dometic Dealer in my business and like their products over Norcold. I am also a Norcold Dealer. Norcold changed all of their model numbers but still the same units minus some cosmetic changes.
The reason why I won’t have a Norcold fridge in my RV is their awful track record with the 1200/1210. These units having huge problems with their cooling units resulting in fires, injury and death. It’s just not worth the liability.
The other thing is that you don’t need a built in fridge. For example, Dometic have a line of CoolFreeze coolers which come in all sizes, are extremely efficient as they run on the DanFoss compressor system. No cooling unit. These units run on 12DC and 120AC and switch over automatically. For boondocking purposes, they draw around 5.5A at 12VDC. If you have a 160W panel and have bright sun it should run it fine. On my Bigfoot I have a 160W panel and it runs it all day with no battery drawdown. I have two six volt FullRiver AGM and they are always at 13.6 VDC whenever I look at my solar controller.
The nice thing about a portable unit is that it goes anywhere including your TV. Also, in a small unit, frees up a lot of space for storage.
This might not be for everyone but it is a viable choice if you boondocks on solar.

[ZachO]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Speaking of venting, I'm no expert but it seems to me that the biggest factors affecting absorption fridge effectiveness is roof vent vs side vent (roof vent helps a lot) along with installation and insulation details. That of course along with the ambient temperature and how often it is opened or how much items are pre-chilled.

It all matters, but assuming a properly built and properly functioning fridge, properly installed, YES- roof vent vs. side vent seems to me, also, to be the most important factor. If the fridge is side vent, it's going to struggle. This seems to be a huge handicap and I, for one, would be perfectly happy with a tube running through my camper, from the top of the fridge compartment, out the roof, to vent the fridge. I've even considered doing this to my camper. Well worth it.

---------------------------------------

As we've discussed a lot on this forum, yes, a compressor style fridge is way, way more efficient on 12V than a 3-way fridge. But the truth is it doesn't matter for most of us. Our fridge was not meant to run on 12V off the battery. On a 3-way, 12V is only meant to be used while traveling and hooked to the tow vehicle, running off the alternator. Because you can't run AC when you're driving, and you aren't supposed to run propane when driving (a whole other discussion).

They are extremely inefficient in 12V mode and really should be thought of as a "limp" mode. It takes a lot of juice, and doesn't cool adequately at all. It just provides some cooling till you "get there" and switch to an adequate cooling method.

12V compressor fridges are meant to actually run effectively on 12V, and are much more efficient, but still not efficient enough for many of us. For those who almost always plug in, or only stay places one night at a time, they work great. You're either running them off shore power, or your alternator is charging your battery.

If you like to spend days out in the middle of nowhere, even the most efficient 12V compressor fridge will quickly drain your battery unless you have at least 100W in solar and a good battery bank, or a generator.

So the math begins to add up like this...

a) you already have a 3-way fridge. It struggles, but it works. FREE with the price of frustration.

b) your fridge died or you never had one in the first place, so you're looking into replacements. You either drive every day or you always plug in. Both 3-ways and good compressor fridges are in the $700 range, more or less. Totally up to you and your preference (like not wanting propane in the camper).

c) you need a new fridge and you boondock a lot. $500-900 for either a good 12V compressor or a 3-way. IF you go compressor, add to that: Battery Bank to support compressor (really loose math) 2 6V @ $100 each. 150W solar panel with everything needed, somewhere in the $500 range. In addition, you need to live in an area with good sunshine, and not park in the shade. Otherwise add more cost in battery bank and solar. Or a generator.

There are more scenarios than I went into but it shows the point. Which is that for many people, strictly comparing efficiency between a 12V compressor fridge and a 3-way fridge running on 12V mode means basically...nothing.

[RV Doctor]

I can tell you that in my opinion, side wall venting is a great reduction of heat removal from the rear of the unit. Sure it is done and many manufacturers do it but that is generally because they are on a slide. You will always get better venting, operation and efficiency from a roof vented system. Even with the use of exhaust fans, side wall vented installations are hampered for heat removal. If the installation can only use a side wall vented location then so be it. But if possible, a roof vented installation is always the way to go.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by RV Doctor

...
The other thing is that you don’t need a built in fridge. For example, Dometic have a line of CoolFreeze coolers which come in all sizes, are extremely efficient as they run on the DanFoss compressor system. No cooling unit. These units run on 12DC and 120AC and switch over automatically. For boondocking purposes, they draw around 5.5A at 12VDC. If you have a 160W panel and have bright sun it should run it fine. ....

This is a good point and frankly, if my camper did not have a built in fridge, this is way I would go... a portable unit.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by gordon2

This is a good point and frankly, if my camper did not have a built in fridge, this is way I would go... a portable unit.

thats what my kid is using in his ambulance-turned-camper 4x4, a portable dometic compressor cooler... he's got about 300W of solar on the roof, the 6.5L diesel has dual 140W alternators and dual batteries, plus he has another pair of batts for the camper side, which are on a cutover switch. he built a nice shelf for the cooler, with a slide-out shelf above it for a camp stove.

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by ZachO

Nope, he's not. Most modern fridges need 12V draw on propane, to power the circuit board activities.

My fridge, an early 90s Dometic, does not use any 12V when on propane, which is one reason I want to stick with it. I need to push a spark ignitor to light it. Modern units have a small amount of 12V draw while on propane.

Well, you've got one vote saying Norcold regulates temps better and one vote saying it regulates them worse, but a couple votes saying they great, either way. My experience is that it's a complete crapshoot. Who built the unit, and on what day, along with how it's installed all play into how much frustration you'll have down the road.

I'd just contact Norcold with questions.

I stand by my original statement

So how is the temperature regulated if there's no 12V needed to keep it constant? How is it regulated?

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by Jann Todd

So how is the temperature regulated if there's no 12V needed to keep it constant? How is it regulated?

It's controlled with a thermostat. Like this one. Same goes for most if not all 2 way fridges.12V DC power doesn't regulate any temperature, but it can be the means by which a thermostat or thermistor sends signal to a control board on a 3-way fridge. With this type of thermostat and a 2-way fridge however, DC power isn't used.

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by rbryan

It's controlled with a thermostat. Like this one. Same goes for most if not all 2 way fridges.Attachment 11574212V DC power doesn't regulate any temperature, but it can be the means by which a thermostat or thermistor sends signal to a control board on a 3-way fridge. With this type of thermostat and a 2-way fridge however, DC power isn't used.

Thank you. I had a 2 way fridge in a truck camper 35 years ago before I knew much about RV's and never thought about how it worked other than I lit it and it ran. Since then all my fridges have used 12V in some manner.