Rewiring - input please!

[DaMScampers]

With the purchase of a 13ft '93 Scamp we are both proud fiberglassrv owners and new to this community.

This past month I have pulled the girl apart down to the proverbial 'studs'. Why? I've had to because of broken systems from electricity, to refrigeration, to heating, to venting, to water... Plus, tearing a thing apart is most educational!

I am getting ready to fix/replace a great deal of the wiring. These are the wiring diagrams that I have put together for myself. I would gladly take input! Thanks for the help.

[Bob Miller]

So far so good, but I would go with the Progressive Dynamics PD-4045 power center as it will replace both the old converter and ac/dc dist panels as well as give you a lot of extra capacity for future add ins, both ac & dc. And it's a slam dunk fit in a SCAMP.

Can't say that I would junque the furnace, it's usually just the sail switch that needs fixing and I would look at a new cooling circuit for the refrigerator.

But I would put a very high priority on the brakes.

BTW: NEVER count on color code being correct unless you are installing all the wires yourself. More than one RV "Technician" has wired white as 12VDC hot

[DaMScampers]

Bob, thanks so much!

1. I looked at the PD4045. But the advice I was getting at the time was to stay with the same amperage of the original trailer. So, alas, both of my items are ordered and en route. Possibly I will still have to weigh the option of the move!

2. Refrigerator was in severe disrepair. Unsalvageable. And that left only the broken furnace using the large LP canister. So, I ditched it so that I could ditch the large LP and now cook with only the little coleman propane canisters. Also, this saves tongue weight. We will see in the long run if I think that was smart or not...

3. Yes, brakes are a huge priority. I hear the talk of not needing them at this weight class. But, with a family or 6 (yep we still will use a tent), and knowing where we want to travel (mountainous) I will feel much better on the day I get that new axle on!

Thanks again.

[Bob Miller]

Hmmmm.... The 45 amp rating for the 4045 is 45 amps DC @ 12 volts, that's about 4 amps on the a/c line.

If your original wiring was only 15/20 amps a/c this is a good opportunity to upgrade to full 30 amp service anyway. All you have to add is a new box (the PD-4045 for example) and a new cord. If not, just put in a 20 amp main breaker and everything stays the same.

Although I am sure you have been using them for a while, I find that the small LP bottles can get very expensive, especially if you have to buy some on the road, such as at a National Park store where I have seen them as high as $5 each.... ouch...

[Rick Mooyman]

Awesome work. I just printer it out for future reference.

[DaMScampers]

Does anyone know why the fuse in both the battery line, and then again just inside the scamp on the same line? This seems redundant. What am I missing?

[stevebaz]

I went with the PD4045 myself but the choice is yours. 2 things I would add was a dc porch light by the door and an ac duplix outside by the door. Those have been very handy for me. There are some Dc circuts to think about and while you dont have to install the items think about running the wires. Dc vent fan, DC utility outlets. Some people like a light outside by the battery and hitch.
I would also think about wiring for solar connection.

[stevebaz]

Originally Posted by DaMScampers

Does anyone know why the fuse in both the battery line, and then again just inside the scamp on the same line? This seems redundant. What am I missing?

Probably to protect the circuts when running on the converter with out the battery hooked up. Remember you have dc comming from both ways.

[DaMScampers]

Steve, that is great input! With all that being the case:

1. How does one prewire for Solar?
2. Is 30amps limiting in regards to anything you have said?
3. Right now, with an adapter I can safely plug into my normal garage outlet (nothing on in the scamp other than lights). Can one do the same with 45 amp service?

[stevebaz]

To prewire for solar you have to decide what you may want to run for solar power and where. If you want to mount stuff on the roof and hide all the wiring then its smart to find out the wire size you need and run the wires before you reinstall any headliner. In my case my system is portable so no hidden wires but i wanted a plug in connection and wired in my controller and hooked it up to a trolling motor connecter so I can plug in at will.
I have never used 30 amps of AC since I havent stuffed in an air conditioner yet. Most people wont set up a 30 amp plug at home unless they want to operate their trailer as a guest house and need to run air conditioner too. In the garage most people use an adapter plug from 30 amp to 15amp just to run the fridge and charge the battery before a trip. They are taking the responcibility for power management not the system wiring and breaker/fuze system. Just like your house over do power consumption and a breaker blows. Your wiring comming in to the trailer has to be properly rated for the system maximium load.

[Thinh]

Here is my inputs for your diagram: 1/ Connection from battery to converter then to AC/DC panel should be bypassed as from battery to AC/DC panel only. 2/ An extra fuse between main bus and converter is not necessary due to converter has it's own fuses. If necessary, a fuse for converter could be added and it's location should be at main AC/DC panel. 3/ Water pump should have it's own fuse, either in-line or one located at AC/DC panel..4/ For more future use, an extra AC, 110VAC outlet or more should be added with high current capacities and high fuses, let's say 20Amp...Just my thought, though...

[DaMScampers]

Thank you all for your input! Invaluable! Any thought on the gauge of wire for the 12 volt side? 10,12,14?

[Thinh]

Originally Posted by DaMScampers

Thank you all for your input! Invaluable! Any thought on the gauge of wire for the 12 volt side? 10,12,14?

...Bigger diameter of wiring is always better due to wire resistance. Only concern one should consider is the COST. The difference in costs b/t 10, 12 or 14 gauge is not much. So IMO, I would choose the biggest gauge. The important thing for protection regarding to electrical field is...THE CORRECT FUSE RATINGS. One who diy project should consider how much the load in that particular branch carries then from there, choosing the CORRECT fuse rating. Let's consider a wire in which can carry 20Amp safely but having the fuse rating of...10Amp . In action, the 10Amp current would freely flow in the wire with minimum wire resistance, but in case of..." over load", let's say 12 Amp, the fuse will be blown for load protection, so the bigger gauge of wire would do it's best regardless of under-load of utilized current. Just my thought....

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Thinh

...Bigger diameter of wiring is always better due to wire resistance. Only concern one should consider is the COST. The difference in costs b/t 10, 12 or 14 gauge is not much. So IMO, I would choose the biggest gauge.

The cost is an issue, but so are the fit of the wire into terminations, the flexibility of the wire for installation, the space taken by wiring, the weight of all the wire in the trailer, and the sheer waste of resources that results from putting in twice as much copper as appropriate. Bigger is not better without limit; if you had 0-gauge battery cable available, would you really use it to run a 5 watt light bulb?

[Raz]

Does anyone know why the fuse in both the battery line, and then again just inside the scamp on the same line? This seems redundant. What am I missing?

It's nice to have a fuse at the battery in case the charge line shorts. It also makes a convenient disconnect.

If you have any interest in a replacement fridge, this one is down to $200 and might be in your neighborhood. Raz

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...tor-60389.html

[Bob Miller]

There is usually 20 and 30 amp AC service for 95% of all RV's. Much bigger Class "A" behemoths may have a 50 amp service line. That figure is for 120VAC.

12 volt amperage is divided by 10 to get equal 120 volt load. i.e, a 45 amp converter, running with maximum load (not very common, if even possible) would draw but 4.5 amps from the 120 power line.

30 amp service is more than enought to run the converter and an AC unit and a microwave all at the same time.

Originally Posted by DaMScampers

Steve, that is great input! With all that being the case:

1. How does one prewire for Solar?
2. Is 30amps limiting in regards to anything you have said?
3. Right now, with an adapter I can safely plug into my normal garage outlet (nothing on in the scamp other than lights). Can one do the same with 45 amp service?

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The cost is an issue, but so are the fit of the wire into terminations, the flexibility of the wire for installation, the space taken by wiring, the weight of all the wire in the trailer, and the sheer waste of resources that results from putting in twice as much copper as appropriate. Bigger is not better without limit; if you had 0-gauge battery cable available, would you really use it to run a 5 watt light bulb?

Geeesh....
I think that the discussion was about 10 ga. vs 12 ga. or 14 ga. wire, any of which are adequate for MOST 12 VDC loads.

About the only issue I see is that it is a PITA to get good crimp-on terminals for larger wire and they do cost a bit more. But weight, space consumption and wire bending ability might be critical in building a Mars Rover, but, perhaps not so much so in a FGRV.

Personally, I shop for my wire stock at the local Swap Meet and Garage sales, buy end rolls that are 14 ga. or bigger, and use what's on hand when I run wires. If my black stock happens to be 12 ga and I am wiring an LED porch light, so be it.....

And, as far as conserving resources..... How many out there are using F-150's to tow a 13' Scamp?????

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

I think that the discussion was about 10 ga. vs 12 ga. or 14 ga. wire, any of which are adequate for MOST 12 VDC loads.

Okay, valid point, but why stop at 10 gauge? If David had asked "8,10,12,14?" would we be telling him to wire the whole trailer in 8-gauge? Someone wiring their basement might list common household wiring gauges - 12, 14 - and I hope people wouldn't tell him to wire the entire house in 12 gauge.

16 gauge is more than adequate for most 12 VDC loads, if we're picking wire size without considering the load. Take a look at the wiring in the tug: there's not likely much wire that's even as large as 14 gauge in there.

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

But weight, space consumption and wire bending ability might be critical in building a Mars Rover, but, perhaps not so much so in a FGRV.

It's good that your trailer has no wiring in cramped spaces, Bob.

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

And, as far as conserving resources..... How many out there are using F-150's to tow a 13' Scamp?????

Lots. And lots of members are not willing to do that. It's a good thing not everyone on the planet hogs resources the way many of us do.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

There is usually 20 and 30 amp AC service for 95% of all RV's. Much bigger Class "A" behemoths may have a 50 amp service line
...
30 amp service is more than enought to run the converter and an AC unit and a microwave all at the same time.

50-amp service may be much more common than you think - it is very common on Class A motorhomes, larger Class C motorhomes, and large travel trailers... essentially anything that might have two air conditioners, or one high-capacity air conditioner plus the ability to run something like a microwave and anything else at the same time.

I agree that with a single air conditioner of moderate size and the appliances typical of a small travel trailer, no more than 30 amp AC service would be required or appropriate.

David - do you have the distinction between 120V AC current and 12V DC current clear now?

[Thinh]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The cost is an issue, but so are the fit of the wire into terminations, the flexibility of the wire for installation, the space taken by wiring, the weight of all the wire in the trailer, and the sheer waste of resources that results from putting in twice as much copper as appropriate. Bigger is not better without limit; if you had 0-gauge battery cable available, would you really use it to run a 5 watt light bulb?

I agree with you ab the nonsense huge gauge of wire for conducting electrial current unnecessary to the load and my implication lies within reasonable size from the poster's range. Regarding to the huge gauge of wire available for battery to run a 5 watts light bulb, my answer is...YES and why not if cost and weight are not put into account. That's why THE FRAME IS USED AS NEGATIVE PORTION OF BATTERY ELECTRICAL CIRCUITRY.... Just my thought...