Sawdust Toilet - Page 7 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-02-2015, 05:30 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
And, "biodegradable" products can take up to ten years to degrade. "Compostable" products take weeks or months.
Actually many items that are considered compostable products such as paper and yard and food waste can take many years to biodegrade if they do not have the right level of moisture, air and heat needed to biodegrade. Newspapers & grass for example have been known to take 25 years or more to degrade in landfills. To little air and to much or to little moisture are common reasons for the items not to degrade.

Which has me wondering just how long would it take wood chips and human waste double bagged in plastic with no air circulation to actual degrade.....

I bit of info on that topic of biodegradable products & how long they take to degrade can be found at Stanford Edu - Symmetrical Archaeology: The Garbage Project - go down to the section heading "BIODEGRADATION IN LANDFILLS."
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Old 09-02-2015, 05:34 PM   #86
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The first I've seen of this idea was the "Humanuer Handbook". Sawdust (or sphagnum) combined with human waste was collected and composted. It is fairly common among the "rural hipster" / sustainable living crowd. I had a go of it (ahem...) while I lived in a dry cabin in Fairbanks. Honestly, folks, there is no smell. Not sure how I feel about it being tied up in a plastic sack and dumped, though...
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Old 09-02-2015, 05:58 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Woodchick View Post
The first I've seen of this idea was the "Humanuer Handbook". Sawdust (or sphagnum) combined with human waste was collected and composted. It is fairly common among the "rural hipster" / sustainable living crowd. I had a go of it (ahem...) while I lived in a dry cabin in Fairbanks. Honestly, folks, there is no smell.
Moe what you say is correct! BUT and its a big BUT in the situation you describe the material is given time to actually degrade/compost. Its very common to see such systems in use up here in the north particularly on small islands were there is no community sewage plant and the property is located to close to the water to allow for a septic field system install due to environmental concerns.

But if one is taking human waste and sawdust and double bagging it into plastic bags (lack of air will prevent it from composting) and dumping it into a garbage bin every few days that is not composting but instead simple the illegal disposal of a hazardous waste
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Old 09-02-2015, 06:24 PM   #88
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OK, this ongoing discussion tempts me to begin researching again. I found this information from the NYC Department of Education:

"Body waste products such as urine and feces without blood
are not considered regulated waste. Waste such as
disposables containing non-fluid blood (i.e.: soiled sanitary
napkins, dressings, gauze and cotton balls with a small
amount of dried blood or other body fluids) are not
Regulated waste. These can be disposed of in plastic bags
with regular garbage."

This is a memo sent out to schools in the city from:
Office of Occupational Safety and Health
65 Court Street, Room 706
Brooklyn, NY 11201
(718) 935-2319

Here is a link to a national map that in turn leads to info about "medical" waste in all 50 states. It should be noted that in what I've found so far, "medical" or "biohazard" waste includes blood, semen, vaginal discharge, and medical implements such as needles(so this link may not address human solid waste). I just include it in case there are other researchniks like me around.
Map

The regulations for Oregon say that "medical" waste does not include soiled diapers.

The regulations for California say:

"Medical waste does not include any of the following:

Waste generated in food processing or biotechnology that does not contain an infectious agent.
Waste generated in biotechnology that does not contain human blood or blood products or animal blood or blood products suspected of being contaminated with infectious agents known to be communicable to humans.
Urine, feces, saliva, sputum, nasal secretions, sweat, tears, or vomitus, unless it contains fluid blood.
Waste which is not biohazardous, such as paper towels, paper products, articles containing non-fluid blood, and other medical solid waste products commonly found in the facilities of medical waste generators.
Hazardous waste, radioactive waste, or household waste.
Waste generated from normal and legal veterinarian, agricultural, and animal livestock management practices on a farm or ranch.

I'm not claiming that any of this sways the argument one way or the other. Do with the information above as you like. I'll probably be digging for some more -- specifically about legality of disposal of our "non-regulated" waste.
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:13 PM   #89
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For a bit of a different tack on this subject... has anybody mentioned the youtube "Gone With the Wynns" video yet about the composting toilet they installed in their RV? It will probably answer a lot of the questions folks keep tossing around here. As to the "why?" of a composting toilet, I would have to say "extended boondocking". Blackwater tanks can only hold so much.

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Old 09-02-2015, 07:24 PM   #90
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OSHA Bloodborne Pathogen Standard:

"Q: Are used urine specimen containers containing urine considered to be infectious waste? Are the same containers when emptied into the sewerage system considered to be infectious and are used urine dip sticks considered to be infectious?

A: The answer is no, unless there was/is visible blood present in the urine. The West Virginia Infectious Medical Waste Rule and the OSHA Bloodborne Pathogen Standard both consider urine and feces, without visible blood, non-regulated body fluids. Therefore, neither urine specimen containers nor urine test dip sticks would be treated as infectious. If the urine did contain visible blood, the fluid could be poured down a sanitary sewer; and the container and dip stick would need to be discarded as infectious medical waste."

"It is also recommended by the Oncology Nursing Society that any disposable items contaminated with urine or feces from the patient within 48 hours of chemotherapy administration should be discarded as hazardous waste."

"...are biohazard cans required in the vicinity of a diaper changing table? In West Virginia, diapers are not infectious medical waste pursuant to Section 3.9.c. of the Rule, which states: 3.9.c. For the purposes of this rule, infectious medical waste does not include the following materials. 3.9.c.3 Used personal hygiene products, such as diapers, facial tissues and sanitary napkins. ...Neither rule defines diapers that contain feces with no visible blood, as infectious medical waste. Therefore there is no need for a biohazard container in a diaper changing area."

This from West Virginia Department of Health

"Understanding that water, urine, feces, and other reasonably anticipated biological components comprising human wastes in sewage are not included in the definition of "other potentially infectious materials" unless "...visibly contaminated with blood...," sewage would not meet the definition of "regulated waste" under most circumstances." excerpt from a letter from Ruth E. McCully, Director
[Office of Health Enforcement], OSHA

"Many folks believe that poop, human poop is a biohazard. The truth is that poop, feces, chacha, ****, turds, scat and the rest may qualify as infectious waste. According to the Centers for Disease control, human feces must have human blood in it before it can be called a biohazard. Therefore, human feces cleanup does not qualify as biohazard cleanup." ...California Affordable Biohazard Cleanup

California HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
SECTION 117625-117780
...117700. Medical waste does not include any of the following:
(unrelated matter snipped)
(c) Urine, feces, saliva, sputum, nasal secretions, sweat, tears,
or vomitus, unless it contains visible or recognizable fluid blood,
as provided in subparagraph (C) of paragraph (1) of subdivision (b)
of Section 117690.

That's SOME stuff to chew on. I mean think about. I find less information about actual disposal, but I'm not finding anything that considers human waste a biohazard UNLESS it is contaminated with blood, or if the individual has had chemotherapy in the previous 48 hours.

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Old 09-02-2015, 07:26 PM   #91
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This from Columbia University (http://ehs.columbia.edu/RMWpolicy.pdf):

Urine and Feces - Urine is not considered regulated medical waste unless it is submitted as a clinical specimen for laboratory tests. However, if a patient is found to have a disease which may be transmitted through urine, then the material containing this fluid (including diapers) must be considered regulated medical waste. Similarly, incontinence materials are not regulated medical waste provided that the patient does not have an infectious disease transmissible by urine. Fecal contaminated materials are not considered to be regulated medical waste. Feces contain microorganisms that even if potentially pathogenic, cannot be transmitted from trash containers or disposal sites.
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:03 PM   #92
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It's like breaded chicken.


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Old 09-03-2015, 07:22 AM   #93
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It's like breaded chicken.
Dang, you about got me in trouble with that one. I am at work and when I read it I laughed out loud!
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Old 09-03-2015, 09:40 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Sands View Post
This from Columbia University (http://ehs.columbia.edu/RMWpolicy.pdf):

Urine and Feces - Urine is not considered regulated medical waste unless it is submitted as a clinical specimen for laboratory tests. However, if a patient is found to have a disease which may be transmitted through urine, then the material containing this fluid (including diapers) must be considered regulated medical waste. Similarly, incontinence materials are not regulated medical waste provided that the patient does not have an infectious disease transmissible by urine. Fecal contaminated materials are not considered to be regulated medical waste. Feces contain microorganisms that even if potentially pathogenic, cannot be transmitted from trash containers or disposal sites.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with whatever point you are trying to make, but just because it has the name of Columbia University on it doesn't mean it is correct. I would prefer guidance from CDC as far as disease transmission is concerned.


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Old 09-03-2015, 10:34 AM   #95
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So why not ask?

Since we are a well traveled little group why dont we conduct our own poll and ask the rangers, campground hosts, or whatever governing body you have where you camp. "Can I place the byproduct of my sawdust toilet after 1 weeks accumulation, properly bagged, in your trash?"
Where-ever we stay we are agreeing to some sort of code of conduct that is under someones authority. Find that person and ask, it really does not matter how good a case you build pro or con. To quote a previous thread "Their house, their rules."
I am headed out to Custer National Park soon so I plan on asking....
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:58 AM   #96
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Two issues. It's not the "byproduct" that's a concern; it's the "product". And, you need to define, "properly bagged".
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:14 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Sands View Post
This from Columbia University (http://ehs.columbia.edu/RMWpolicy.pdf):

Urine and Feces - Urine is not considered regulated medical waste unless it is submitted as a clinical specimen for laboratory tests. However, if a patient is found to have a disease which may be transmitted through urine, then the material containing this fluid (including diapers) must be considered regulated medical waste. Similarly, incontinence materials are not regulated medical waste provided that the patient does not have an infectious disease transmissible by urine. Fecal contaminated materials are not considered to be regulated medical waste. Feces contain microorganisms that even if potentially pathogenic, cannot be transmitted from trash containers or disposal sites.

A recap of a few relevant items to the thread that some seem to be missing are:

1) The disposal of "Solid" human as well as pet waste into the general garbage has been confirmed here and on another thread of the same topic, to be illegal in many places in NA. Yes one can dispose of "soiled" baby diapers into the general garbage but not if they contain "Solid" human waste.

2) Disposing of anything that has to be double bagged in plastic into general garbage is not good for the environment. If one is actually wanting to save the earth, the use of plastic bags is to be avoided &/if and when they do come into your possession they are sent to designated plastic recycling not to the garbage.

3) The system being discussed in this thread is NOT the same as a sawdust composting toilet which are commonly found and used at homes/cottages where there is no alternative sewage treatment systems available.

Composting takes time (months/years), air and the correct amount of moisture. None of which is going to happen if the material is dumped out of an RV after only a few days and wrapped in two plastic bags & dumped into a garbage can as has been proposed here.

4) Items wrapped in plastic and dumped into garbage cans either go to a landfill where it will sit inside the plastic it is wrapped in for YEARS and not degrade or it will go to an incinerator and be burned sending toxins into the air, as the plastic bags burn.
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:50 AM   #98
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Thank You for the summary Carol, I think that pretty much defines and, hopefully, quashes, the whole issue of the human catbox.... LOL
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