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Old 08-23-2015, 08:01 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA View Post
In the meantime, in looking for answers, I found this article about new technology (too expensive for Rv's but very interesting new methods)

This Is What A Toilet Looks Like When Bill Gates Is Involved | Co.Exist | ideas + impact
This video speaks for itself. When Bill Gates gets involved, the product becomes too complicated, has too many subsystems that will continuously break down, require constant maintenance and be a sporting challenge for hackers. Maybe when there is a version 10.1, the users will get used to it... That's not how to save the Third World. The sawdust has at least a chance.
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:06 AM   #22
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:47 AM   #23
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I just can't bring myself to think of our camping styles as having regressed to "Third World" standards.


And before complaining about the complexity of the Bill Gates loo, look at the computer/laptop/tablet/smartphone in front of oneself as this is being read. They sorta makes the loo in question look like an Ox Cart of technology.



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Old 08-23-2015, 08:58 AM   #24
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I think this could be a viable alternative to a porta potti and as the efforts of those who did a little research show, the rules and regs are somewhat vague and confusing. As people who foster dogs for an animal welfare group, we've certainly thrown our share of doggie poop bags into trash cans and those bags sure aren't very puncture proof. I've seen my share of dirty diapers just tossed into dumpsters too. There's all kinds of pathogenic, toxic stuff leaking out of garbage dumpsters. I think the key to this is to make sure the waste is securely sealed with a double bag system. It's not a system I would personally like to use, but I can see that it would work. And this particular woman would not faint away at using it or seeing the contents. Just think of some of the Sani Cans or vault toilets you've probably used! At least with a sawdust/kitty litter toilet, you have control over its maintenance and use.
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:30 AM   #25
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I sometimes feel like I am asking the same question...


Porta-potties are self contained, use only a small amount of water, use no non-degradable consumables, such as plastic bags, do not require keeping a large bag of sawdust available for use, are designed to be disposed of in the existing waste disposal stream and have no risk of contaminating solid waste disposal containers.


Can anyone tell me, in the RV application world, how the sawdust toilet is even equal to, much less better than, the existing Porta-Potty systems in common use?


If Not, I rest my case.....



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Old 08-23-2015, 10:34 AM   #26
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Bob, I don't understand the need to attack the OP. He was simply sharing an idea he was excited about. You either like it, or you don't.

To me, the biggest picture here is that this forum is meant for sharing ideas and information. I don't believe constructing attacks against others are necessary or warranted, for in life there is plenty that is not our cup of tea. There are ways to share thoughts and feelings to the counter that encourage further helpful understanding, and if you will, human brotherhood.

I feel that the tone you've used here is hurtful and unnecessary. With responses such as these new forum members will shy away from getting the help they need, or in sharing their excitement with little mods or ideas they have. I have been helped here by countless kind people, who when I was going down the wrong path with an idea or repair, gently counseled me toward other options and sensible reasons why I might consider those.

I appreciate the OP's sharing and excitement, and thank him for doing so. Our purpose here is to do the greater good, and if something strikes you as not quite right, it might ought to be spoken with kindness.

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Old 08-23-2015, 11:30 AM   #27
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Great response Wendy
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Old 08-23-2015, 11:36 AM   #28
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The OP made statements that he indicated that his idea was a commonly used, safe, effective and legal method of waste disposal for RV'ers. I commented that, in 50 years of camping, that I had never heard of it, and asked for some supporting evidence for those claims. If there had been some presented, that would have been the end of the discussion.


When an individual makes the authoritarian blanket statement that this method of waste disposal is "Legal", one has to remember that they is addressing the residents of 50 states where disposal laws will differ considerable between and within each of those states. Already several have chimed in as to why it's not a good idea and is not allowed in some areas.


I am only being critical of the idea and the claims, not of the person making them.


But then again, no one has been able to answer my basic question of "why is this idea even as good as, much less better than, what is already in common use?".



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Old 08-23-2015, 11:54 AM   #29
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Bob,

There are ways to seek evidence, if you require it, that are non-threatening in tone.

If I were to require evidence of any claim, due to interest in a product, I wouldn't ask others to do the research. I would do it myself.

At any rate Bob, the OP had an idea, he shared it, and I thank him for that. If you're not interested in the sawdust toilet, then I see no further reason to continue to press for evidence.

The tone in your posts does carry a hostile tone, which comes off as personally attacking.

I will close now as I have nothing further to add to this discussion, but am thankful to have learned about another human being's idea and his work to make it a reality for him.

Sincerely,
Wendy



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Old 08-23-2015, 11:59 AM   #30
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Quote: "If I were to require evidence of any claim, due to interest in a product, I wouldn't ask others to do the research. I would do it myself."


I did and I came up with a zero..... that's why I turned it back to the OP.



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Old 08-23-2015, 12:06 PM   #31
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I think this discussion has been of interest to even those of us not living within the 50 States of America. Or is it 51? I don't remember.
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Old 08-23-2015, 12:06 PM   #32
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Our purpose here is to do the greater good, and if something strikes you as not quite right, it might ought to be spoken with kindness.

Sincerely,
Wendy
Precisely.
Which is why it makes sense to counter bad ideas.
I would not recommend hooking up the vehicle exhaust to heat the trailer, nor would I recommend a sawdust toilet.
And, do you think about the people who have to empty those garbage cans?
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Old 08-23-2015, 12:21 PM   #33
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Years ago ,raw sewage, industrial waste ,slaughter house waste etc etc was often dumped in the closest river . The rational was that it was legal , safe ,CHEAP and ended up being rhe problem of those living down stream . It is evident by this thread that this way of thinking is still alive today.
Hopefully ,I stated my opinion in a sensitive manner so as to not offend.
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Old 08-23-2015, 12:41 PM   #34
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Can anyone tell me, in the RV application world, how the sawdust toilet is even equal to, much less better than, the existing Porta-Potty systems in common use?
Well, I can't say they are equal to or better than, because they are just two different systems used for two different purposes. I *have* a brand new porta potty that came with my trailer... the plastic is still on it.

Those of you who have used one of these and who are inured to the clean up and disposal part of the process know what you are about, are obviously happy with the concept, and that's certainly fine! To each his own!

But these do use water and chemicals. The chemical part I did not like. I don't like the idea of carrying the thing and dumping it (with several days' accumulation), and then cleaning and leaving it sitting until the next time.

Plus, there is the initial investment, which might be too costly for some.

Again, I can't speak to the sawdust approach, because the expected disposal for that is COMPOST, and when biological matter is covered in a compost pile the ensuing heat does absolutely sterilize the mixture, especially after two years (the recommended length of time). The resulting product is not dangerous, but of course you don't want your grandchildren out there climbing on the pile while it's cooking.

Even so, sawdust and waste which is double bagged and sent to a landfill is also going to get very hot. It may not reduce to compost, but it will heat to the point that it should be safe when it finally degrades.

I'm a female, and I'm finicky (no more public porta potties for me ever). I can just testify that I used the kitty litter system for two years, the maintenance and clean up was a breeze, there was no negative aroma, it was very comfortable and discrete inside my tent, there was no line of women and MEN standing just outside waiting, and I'm once again convinced that the disposal method was proper.

Because my set-up looks like some laundry supplies (laundry detergent bucket and Clorox 2 bottle), these items can sit out under the trailer during the day, and come in at night for emergencies. The snap-on lid keeps it completely sealed.

I want to do the right thing, of course, and everyone has their own preferences. This is mine, and I just share the details in case others are still making decisions.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:02 PM   #35
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And, do you think about the people who have to empty those garbage cans?
This is like suggesting that we're not thinking of janitors when we go to the bathroom, or dishwashers when we eat in restaurants. Sanitary workers are emptying the nastiest stuff in the universe (short of nuclear waste), and doing a job they applied for and are paid to do. (At amazing rates of pay, in a union, with job security, and receiving medical benefits and retirement.)

These garbage cans contain: adult diapers (some rolled up and sealed and some not), baby diapers (some rolled up and some not), kitty litter full of kitty poo (some of this litter is bagged and some is just loose in the garbage can), and doggie poo, some of it sealed in a single doggie poo bag and some loose in the garbage from people who have shoveled their back yard and just dumped the contents in the can. In other words, this stuff is very yucky; it is encountered by these workers every day, and it is all legal and acceptable, and no one on any forum anywhere makes a stink about it.

These cans also contain rotten food, waste products from bathroom trashes (often also nasty and often not sealed in trash bags), and other GARBAGE we have not even thought of.

Of all of these nasties, I think that double-bagged bits from our RV's are going to be the least offensive of all for the people emptying the cans, and also much less environmentally damaging.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:10 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Years ago ,raw sewage, industrial waste ,slaughter house waste etc etc was often dumped in the closest river . The rational was that it was legal , safe ,CHEAP and ended up being rhe problem of those living down stream . It is evident by this thread that this way of thinking is still alive today.
Hopefully ,I stated my opinion in a sensitive manner so as to not offend.
Unless someone here is suggesting disposing out in the gutters (people used to toss their chamber pot contents out into the streets) or dumping into into a river, I hardly see how this remark is relevant, but the implication is not all that *sensitive.*

And when individuals here and elsewhere are seeking *cost effective* and acceptable solutions to problems, calling them "CHEAP" is a low blow.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:15 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA View Post
I'm just curious... if we're not supposed to dispose of doggie "bags" in public trash, where are they supposed to go?

My kitty's litter is scooped into a garbage bag, tied, and added to our trash.

Is this human waste/kitty litter procedure different/less environmentally sound?
In my area dog poop is suppose to be flushed down a toilet & not put into public trash unless the trash is designated for such.

No human waste in the public trash either - items such a disposable diapers are suppose to have as much human waste removed as possible from them before they are put into the public garbage system.

As others have suggested the disposal of the waste of a sawdust toilet would be problematic .. not to mention the extra sawdust one would also need to pack along...
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:18 PM   #38
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I think that's an excellent suggestion Ellpea.


Those wanting to use the sawdust toilet need only keep their bags of waste around for a year or so until it reduces to safe compost, and then add that, and yet another plastic bag (or two), to the landfill pile.


But, until then, a public trash receptacle is still not a good place to put a (double) plastic bag full of poop and sawdust, and that was my entire point...


I don't know which Porta-Potty you are about to start using, there are some good ones and some not-so-good. But the Domatic SeaLand 970 series is about the best in the business and it is easy to empty and there is no "Yuk" factor whatsoever.


I have installed five of them and have not heard anything but positive comments from users. Here is a link to one seller, prices may be lower elsewhere:
Sealand Sanipottie 975 Toilet - Star Marine Depot


And an Install on a slide out track in my Hunter. We call it SnS "Slide n' Sit" LOL...









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Old 08-23-2015, 01:23 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA View Post
Unless someone here is suggesting disposing out in the gutters (people used to toss their chamber pot contents out into the streets) or dumping into into a river, I hardly see how this remark is relevant, but the implication is not all that *sensitive.*

.
While you may not see the relevance in the statement made I suspect most public health experts would. The health hazards associated with people dumping human waste into a public landfill are just as serious as they were back in the day of the chamber pot being dumped into the local gutter.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:57 PM   #40
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I really don't want to fuss about this issue.

Quote:
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The health hazards associated with people dumping human waste into a public landfill are just as serious as they were back in the day of the chamber pot being dumped into the local gutter.
But I think there is a big difference. Human waste in a landfill is not being sloshed down on someone's head, and our toddlers are not stomping around in it barefoot. Pedestrians are not walking through it and carrying it into their homes on their shoes.

Chamber pot residue was not double bagged. Human waste is not going unprotected into a garbage dump, it is (should be) double bagged and sealed, and from what little information we can find, this is the procedure required by the national park services that care to address the topic at all.

I should clarify, that my interest in this has only to do with dry camping. In any other situation, I would prefer a nice nearby restroom (except possibly late at night).

I agree with the other poster who said he thought this topic stinks.

The purpose of the OP was to share information, cost, and procedure, and he did so with good photos and explanations. There are obviously going to be disagreements about this, and there won't be a way to resolve them, any more than we can all come to an agreement about tow vehicles and weights. This an even more personal issue, and my feeling is that so long as the sawdust user and/or kitty litter fan takes every precaution to be as considerate of others and the environment as possible, we should consider this an individual choice and let it go at that.
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