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Old 04-06-2016, 03:01 PM   #21
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Name: Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darral T. View Post
I LOVE the temperature of my comfortable Scamp splitting hairs. I didnt know what it was called until today....but I'm sure glad I split'em!

One problem I DIDNT mention was "humidity". After the compressor would kick off on my Coleman, it would get very humid (i live in the southeast) before it would kick on again. Some say I may could have put a drain to get the water out of the unit? Dunno... but when I got the unit shutting down completely, the humidity went away. So here's to me and MY "Digi"...
I am assuming from your post that you added a relay in the cooling control / power circuit so that the fan and compressor would cycle together. Whether the relay was controlled by an electronic or a mechanical thermostat would make no difference . On is on and off is off. . One of the reasons for cycling the compressor and running the fan continually is to stop stratification of the air and to deice the coils which can ice up under certain conditions . Running the A/C fan continually and cycling the compressor is common in
commercial and industrial applications. In northern climates during the heating seasons they often run residential / commercial furnace / boiler fans / pumps continually and cycle the burner to maintain even temperatures. I am not questioning your experiences with your A/C but the electronic thermostat was not the source of the solution.
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Old 04-06-2016, 03:38 PM   #22
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I dont know what more to explain that the thermostat's ability to vary the temp's on/off "tweaks" the final temp DOES contribute to the solution. It can vary 1 deg TOTAL (not +/-) or up to 3 deg. And with the fan running inside the thermostat (my idea), it stays very close to ambient temps in my Scamp. I'll restate, the manual thermostat wouldnt do that on my unit and it was not a wall mount. I continually measured the temps before attempting this install!

If I can add, the small floor heaters (they're warmer feeling than the heat strip on the Coleman) are hard to adjust to get in comfy in the trailer as well. The Hunter- once again- will keep the temp within 1 deg by starting and stopping the heater...I leave the heater's thermostat on high.

Some people may can sleep in 90 deg temps, high humidity, vary 10-15 deg...dunno. I may have to one day. But for now, the Hunter controls it perfectly.

And yes, there is a relay that's shown on the drawings I posted a link to earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I am assuming from your post that you added a relay in the cooling control / power circuit so that the fan and compressor would cycle together. Whether the relay was controlled by an electronic or a mechanical thermostat would make no difference . On is on and off is off. . One of the reasons for cycling the compressor and running the fan continually is to stop stratification of the air and to deice the coils which can ice up under certain conditions . Running the A/C fan continually and cycling the compressor is common in
commercial and industrial applications. In northern climates during the heating seasons they often run residential / commercial furnace / boiler fans / pumps continually and cycle the burner to maintain even temperatures. I am not questioning your experiences with your A/C but the electronic thermostat was not the source of the solution.
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Old 04-06-2016, 04:12 PM   #23
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My question was "what is an analog thermostat?" The so called analog thermostat is technically a digital device since it's output is a 2 states and only 2 states output (on or off). Analog devices have an infinite number of output states. There are many devices that have analog to digital capabilities with the output being digital such as a digital volt meter. (Analog input and digital output). Each segment of the "digital" display is either on or off.

However the temperature control in automobile is more analog since it controls the amount of hot mixed with cold air to determine the temperature of the air coming out vents. NOTE: older vehicles provided control over the amount of hot water going through the heater core.

The answer to your question about splitting hairs, I don't think so...
Byron, you can define your terms any way you like, of course, but it appears the heating and cooling professionals define the kind of thermostat in which you set the heat point by sliding a lever or turning a dial as "analog" and the kind in which you set the heat point by pushing buttons on an LED display as "digital." Here are two of many sites that follow this convention:
Analog vs Digital Thermostats: And The Winner Is...
Digital Thermostats vs Analog Thermostats

It seems to me the difference is not the output (on or off) but the temperature input. Sliding a bar or turning a dial on an analog thermostat allows for (theoretically, at least) an infinite number of heat point settings. The heat point on a digital device is set in fixed one degree increments stored in digital form as a sequence of 1's and 0's.

For the record, I have no plans to switch my thermostat to a digital (or electronic, or whatever you want to call it...) unit. We use the furnace so rarely it's not worth the cost and trouble to upgrade. And I am in agreement that the bigger issues are the location of the thermostat and the lack of air circulation in the trailer. A small 12V fan seems like a good idea if I ever plan any extended cool weather camping.
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Old 04-08-2016, 03:26 PM   #24
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I think I can solve part of the problem with a digital thermostat I found on the net It requires no battery works off 12dc or 110ac has a relay that s rated at 10amps. Put one in my Casita last summer and ran a 110 electric heater on low to keep from freezing our stuff. Put a remote thermometer inside so we could watch the results. With out the suns heat it kept the inside at 38. Don't remember the cost but it was somewhere below 20$. Will use that setup when camping this year.
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Old 04-08-2016, 04:03 PM   #25
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Byron, you can define your terms any way you like, of course, but it appears the heating and cooling professionals define the kind of thermostat in which you set the heat point by sliding a lever or turning a dial as "analog" and the kind in which you set the heat point by pushing buttons on an LED display as "digital." Here are two of many sites that follow this convention:
Analog vs Digital Thermostats: And The Winner Is...
Digital Thermostats vs Analog Thermostats

It seems to me the difference is not the output (on or off) but the temperature input. Sliding a bar or turning a dial on an analog thermostat allows for (theoretically, at least) an infinite number of heat point settings. The heat point on a digital device is set in fixed one degree increments stored in digital form as a sequence of 1's and 0's.

For the record, I have no plans to switch my thermostat to a digital (or electronic, or whatever you want to call it...) unit. We use the furnace so rarely it's not worth the cost and trouble to upgrade. And I am in agreement that the bigger issues are the location of the thermostat and the lack of air circulation in the trailer. A small 12V fan seems like a good idea if I ever plan any extended cool weather camping.
I suspect that I've spent more hours working with analog and digital devices than any heating/cooling "expert".
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Old 04-08-2016, 04:16 PM   #26
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OK Let's test this theory of the input determines whether a device is analog or digital.
A conman device is Volt/Ohm meter. You can measure voltages with an analog or digital Volt meter. Volts are always analog, so what makes on meter an analog meter and another a digital meter, it's the output.
Resistance measured in OHMS the same ohms are analog.
Definitions -- Analog infinite number of values.
Digital --- Only two values often referred to as 0 & 1. 0 and 1 can be defined in a number of way, but for any given device they are consistent across all conditions related to that device.

Just for information sack. There's a number of electronic terms that non-electronic people think they understand will pick up and try to change the definition to suit them.

So splitting hairs NO, correct usage of terms YES.
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Old 04-08-2016, 04:32 PM   #27
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So by your definition a light switch is a digital device because it has two output states: on and off?

I think I could grant you it is a binary device, but it does not receive, store, process, or output information in binary digit ("bit") form. That's my definition of a digital device.
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Old 04-08-2016, 04:46 PM   #28
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So by your definition a light switch is a digital device because it has two output states: on and off?

I think I could grant you it is a binary device, but it does not receive, store, process, or output information in binary digit ("bit") form. That's my definition of a digital device.
It certainly does store the digital (binary) information. You don't have stand and hold a light switch to make stay is one state or the other.
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Old 04-08-2016, 05:15 PM   #29
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I installed a digital T stat . I took it out of the bed which never made any sense and moved it right above the light next to my sink and have it wired "residential" so that it controls the heat and the AC. Works awesomely
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Old 04-09-2016, 04:17 AM   #30
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Ok. All this digital analog discussion got me curious so I went out to the Trash Panda and took a pic of the guts of the old style thermostat

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This is the epitome of an analog device. Yes the output is digital, as the whole point of the exercise is to control a switch, but the input could not be more analog. The black coil in the center is a coiled bi-metallic strip that expands and contracts with changing temperature. One end is anchored to the temp adjusting arm axle, the other has the electrical contact. Moving the adjusting arm (slider) rotates the whole coil, changing the distance between the coil contact and the fixed contact thereby changing the temperature (measured by coil expansion) at which the contacts close. The "sproing" mentioned earlier is caused by the magnet on the fixed contact which makes sure the contact closes and stays closed. It pulls the moving contact suddenly in whe it gets about 1/32" away, bouncing the coil with its little signature "sproing"
So to sum up, there are exactly zero electronics in this thing. The input, temperature measurement and switch control is purely mechanical, which is by any definition analog. Just my $2.50. 'Cause engineers get more than $0.02.
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Old 04-09-2016, 06:23 AM   #31
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Just to stir the pot....

-digital circuits were also called switching circuits at one point and light switches used to illustrate some of the basic circuits.

-the bimetalic spring that controls a thermostats output is continuous, a common characteristic of analog.

-the thermistors in the electronic thermostat are also continuous, being an analog component.

-with the exception of perhaps a calculator, most devices with digital readouts are not any more accurate than if the display were analog. It just seems that they are because you read a number ; no interpolation is needed.

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Old 06-02-2019, 03:53 AM   #32
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Darral T if your still on here question about your thermostat install

Darral your write up on how to install the thermostat is wonderful. I was looking at your wiring schematic. My question about the relay wiring. From the 120 side I see you installed a switch 20 amp just wondering what the switch is for and if it is needed?

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At the end of this, I have a link to my personal installation I did myself. With this installation, the original idea came off the Casita site...dont remember the name..I think it's on my Flickr link below.

I think the confusion between "analog" and "digital" should possibly be reworded and compared as "mechanical" to "electronic".

I installed a $25 Hunter to my 2010 Scamp. I did not get the furnace...still wouldnt. But my Coleman A/C has the heat unit. This setup works off a relay tripped by my thermostat. I also have a 120v plug attached and run a small cheap floor heater via the thermostat (but not at the same time!).

People can argue all they want, I can hold my 13' Scamp within ONE degree if desirable. But there's ONE secret to this that I have not found mentioned anywhere else. Steve makes mention of this and that's the effectiveness of the (or ANY) thermostat! Its default location at the end of the cabinet is a "Dead air" area. I found this out the hard way with my Hunter when it TOO was varying 10-15 deg when testing!!

The answer? I put a small micro fan inside the thermostat which circulates the air through it that other wise was flowing over the top of it down into the cushions. This is now how I can vary my temps (hot or cold) within 1 deg. The Hunter has 3 settings that lets you vary the difference you desire with up to 3 deg difference between cycles if you want. Hunter calls the setting: Span 1, 2, & 3.

This link to my installation shows how I installed the fan and it has worked for the past 5 yrs without ONE problem. Honestly, I can say the temp in my Scamp is more comfortable than my house. Sorry I just sleep better in a cool environment with my asthma.

The only thing with this installation, it shuts the entire unit down (fan and compressor) between cycles. My home central unit does the same. This is actually a very simple concept. Oh..I like the Indigo light at night. I can roll over and easily adjust the temp 1 deg at a time and/or look at the time. :-)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/503516...57626806751813
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Old 06-02-2019, 08:00 AM   #33
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Brad, first of all, thanks for the compliment. I really appreciate it as the drawings and all took quite a while to complete. I hope someone can get some good out of it eventually.

The 120v 20A switch is what I call my "bypass" switch. The original idea from others did not include this. What does it do? It literally and physically BYPASSES the relay. The switch "completes" the circuit once again as if the thermostat/relay set up was never installed!

The reason I did this was, if the batteries were to go down inside the thermostat (AND I forgot to bring more) or should the thermostat should fail, OR should the relay fail, etc; simply flip the switch and the unit will return to its normal functionality as it was from the factory. You would/will use the controls on the ac unit as before.

I dont leave batteries in the unit at ALL when it's in storage. So sometimes, if I (or my wife) goes down to my Scamp to clean or what ever, I'll just flip the switch and use the standard controls since I wont be there long. It has come in VERY handy. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by escondite View Post
Darral your write up on how to install the thermostat is wonderful. I was looking at your wiring schematic. My question about the relay wiring. From the 120 side I see you installed a switch 20 amp just wondering what the switch is for and if it is needed?
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