Simple question about rivets and nuts

[Carol H]

Well Dave I was equally as serious about the cost of postage from Canada to the US. I recently sent someone on the list a light cover that weighed nothing - If I had mailed it from here the cost would have been in the $9 range to send & then would have gotten it in 10 days - maybe. I instead mailed it on the US side as I happened to be going camping in Washington that week-end - cant recall exactly what it costed but it was under $3.

I travel on rough gravel roads frequently and do have the occasional rivet failure but its not a common thing and certainly not all of the rivets. Only a couple that based on their location are carrying weight and are I suspect located in a major flex point on the trailer. Have only had to replace them a couple of times due to failure in six years. Rather have to replace them quickly and easy than having to deal with possible fiberglass crack repairs. I did though replace a large number of rivets when I got the trailer six years ago when I first got the trailer as it was then 16 year old & had lots of broken retainer snap caps etc.

[Carol H]

[QUOTE=Steve and Rosemary;427075 A previous owner of ours put the AC in that bottom part and then just "added" a closet bottom. ![/QUOTE]

Steve its possible that it wasnt a previous owner but that it came installed that way from the factory. Scamp use to put their AC units in the bottom of the closet area. Not sure what year they stopped doing that but seem to think it was in the late 90's or so.

[stevebaz]

I travel on rough gravel roads frequently and do have the occasional rivet failure but its not a common thing and certainly not all of the rivets. Only a couple that based on their location are carrying weight and are I suspect located in a major flex point on the trailer..[/QUOTE]

If you are having rivet failures, install the rivets and tighten them up but dont pop the shank, release your pop rivet gun and cut the shank off flush with the head of the rivet. This will up the rivets shear strength and wear life in those critical areas by leaving the shank still inside the rivet. Scamp did this alot on my trailer from the factory. Especially on the roof hung fiberglass end cabinets.

[ShawnKK]

Steve, if that is what Scamp is doing they are doing it wrong. That will not up the shear strength. It will make it "weaker". If they are doing this it is because they are not putting the right size rivet in the hole. They have grip length tools so you will know what size rivet "length" that should go in the hole.
Here are a couple of charts that can help anyone out (cheat sheet).
Fastener Mart: Understanding Blind Rivets

[Carol H]

Wonder if perhaps Scamp is using blind, closed end rivet in some spots now? If I am not mistaken I think those do have more strength. I have never seen any on my old scamp though but I have replaced a couple of rivets where its clear the shank did not brake off down inside but at about the same level as the start of the opening. Always assumed it was perhaps a misfire of some sort. Interested to hear it may actually be related to a miss fitted rivet.

[ShawnKK]

When a rivet is "shot-pop" or what ever you want to call it, it should leave the stem flush with the rivet head. If the stem it not flush or came out it is either too short or too long of a rivet.
If it is too long protruding from the rivet head "I" would just shave it flush or grind it down flush.
If the stem pulled thru leaving a hole in the rivet I would drill it out and try a longer size. Rivets are cheap so no big loss.
Someone said something to the fact of a nut on the end? Would they be talking about a huck bolt rivet? Or is it just to pretty up the ends? I wouldn't think they use hucks. I did search the scamp site and they show pop rivets.

[stevebaz]

Originally Posted by ShawnKK

Steve, if that is what Scamp is doing they are doing it wrong. That will not up the shear strength. It will make it "weaker". If they are doing this it is because they are not putting the right size rivet in the hole. They have grip length tools so you will know what size rivet "length" that should go in the hole.
Here are a couple of charts that can help anyone out (cheat sheet).
Fastener Mart: Understanding Blind Rivets

It will up the shear strength because the rivit body will not collapse as easily and tear apart. its marginal but is a benefit in some cases. it will do nothing in tensil load.

there are always better choices out there but nothing as cheep and easy.

[ShawnKK]

I agree, nothing else as cheap and easy.
I dis agree on the up the shear strength. But it isn't a big deal. Not like anyone or thing depends on one or the other. But Scamp is lieing to you for a fact.

Not sure if everyone knows this but when ever you install a rivet or a bolt ect ect, always put butly tape or a seal on the rivet or bolts. You may think it just pushes right out but not all of it will. It fills any voids and keeps it water tight. That is another reason to make sure the stem didn't pop out.
Also,lol. Another reason they use rivets and not bolts besides cost is a rivet will shear off before the FG cracks under stress. A bolt will not. I would rather have to replace a rivet than do FG work. Depends on the area of your camper but go with what came out of the hole. If you replace a alum with a SS rivet you may be asking for trouble. I notice these eggs are full of alum not SS rivets.
But bottom line, it is your own camper so do what ever makes you feel good!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by ShawnKK

Someone said something to the fact of a nut on the end?

Scamp shots rivets into acorn nuts where they will be visible on the inside of the trailer - usually around cabinets etc. Just to pretty it up.

[ShawnKK]

I just had to call Scamp. They use all Alum rivets with washers and to fancy it up he said acorn nuts. So yes they are just pop rivets. Buy them at your local store people.
The washer would be used to expand the area that it holds on the inside. It also can be use if the rivet is too long. Scamp sells nothing special on the rivets. So buy the cheapest you can find. I also noted the size they use on their web site if your not sure. Remember to always use the Butly tape and or seal and make sure the rivet goes in easy and not tight. A rivet hole should never be a tight hole.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by ShawnKK

I just had to call Scamp. They use all Alum rivets with washers and to fancy it up he said acorn nuts. .

Did they actually say they used washers? Never seen a Scamp with washers on the rivets - only acorn nuts or nothing ...... must be something new. Only have seen washers used on bolt on parts such as awning holders etc.

I know I and a few others here put a bit of butyl tape on the bottom of the snap cap retaining ring prior to attaching the rivet. Works well.

[ShawnKK]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Did they actually say they used washers? Never seen a Scamp with washers on the rivets - only acorn nuts or nothing ...... must be something new. Only have seen washers used on bolt on parts such as awning holders etc.

I know I and a few others here put a bit of butyl tape on the bottom of the snap cap retaining ring prior to attaching the rivet. Works well.

I have no reason to lie about that. But putting a washer on a rivet is a norm. Nothing wrong with that at all. Matter of fact it is better to use a washer. It covers more area for the hold. Just make sure you add it to the thickness so you put the right size rivet in. The "Military" does it too! We know how you like that so I guess it is sold now. Lol.
Has far as putting Butly or seal on the bottom of the rivet is also a norm. But make sure you put it under the head of the rivet too. Not sure if Scamp does it but I would say they don't. Time is money.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by ShawnKK

I have no reason to lie about that..

Wasnt suggesting you were just wondered if perhaps there may have been a miscommunications in regards to under what circumstances they use washers. As said none to be found on my scamp where they have used rivets and I have helped a number of folks fix a few things on much newer than mine Scamps and had never seen one... simple that. Agree using them is a good thing and wonder when they started to use them.

Your also correct Scamp does not use butyl tape on rivets.