Simple question about rivets and nuts - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-23-2013, 10:07 PM   #15
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When we rehabbed our Scamp 13 years ago, I drilled out all the rivets and replaced them with SS nuts, bolts, and a bag of white caps from Scamp. Seems it ran around $200 back then to do the whole trailer, but solved having to caulk leaking rivets and made repairs and mods much easier.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:04 PM   #16
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I just ordered some nuts from Scamp and they were very helpful and fast. As far as the closet goes, I'm with Carol and wonder why you'd need to remove the closet it modify it. A previous owner of ours put the AC in that bottom part and then just "added" a closet bottom. I plan to put shelves in the rest of the closet since we don't hang much and everything ends up being piled in the bottom -- what a pain!

As far as the water tank, I think I know what you're saying and it just might work. If nothing else, you could probably get a tank that's a slightly different shape to fit as you'd expect. Do you need to remove the benches to get at that? I suppose you do. Something I plan to do (eventually) is add a big hole/hatch on the top of the tank so I can clean it out really thoroughly. There's a thread here somewhere on how to do it but it's too late for me to look now. Does anyone else remember this?

Anyways, good luck with your rivets. We've been too chicken to touch any of ours even though I think a few of them NEED to be replaced now that we've removed all the caulk and SILLYcone that was keeping them from leaking. Winter's almost here so I'm sure we'll find leaks if they're there... soon enough!
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:57 AM   #17
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Sorry for confusion

The need to remove interior stuff was for the potential water tank relocation, not the closet mod, sorry to confuse people. I was referring to the need to remove the fiberglass enclosure surrounding the water tank.

I measured the water tank and found out some interesting things, most notably that it is not a 12 gal tank as Scamp indicated. The exterior dimensions are:
19.5 x 11.5 x 11.5 which works out to about 11 gallons and a bit.

If you account for 1/8" wall thickness or so and the fact that the fill port overflows when the tank is still about 1" shy of full, that works out to under 10 gallons, 9.8 by my calculation.

It should be possible to move the tank forward by turning it sideways to the trailer. The side-to-side dimension of that bed bench area (i forget how you guys refer to it) is plenty wide other than the small angled section to the front. It looks like the effective center of gravity of that tank could be moved almost two feet forward, a big deal in my opinion and would open up a lot of storage space for lighter things (bedding?). Water pump and some plumbing would require relocation but it doesn't look too onerous.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:36 AM   #18
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I'm liking the idea of moving the water tank a bit... maybe even putting the water pump in the same compartment and consolidating some space a bit. It looks as if it's just held down with some plumber's strappping tape.

With respect to rivets, I also bought a few from Scamp, along with the white caps and washers, and some acorn nuts. All that stuff should be available elsewhere as well. I've actually not used any of the rivets on the Scamp yet, finding it just as esy to use an honest nut and bolt, with either an acorn nut or a white cap, to mount the few lights and shelf brackets I've added. That makes it easier to modify later.

c
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semievolved View Post
The need to remove interior stuff was for the potential water tank relocation, not the closet mod, sorry to confuse people. I was referring to the need to remove the fiberglass enclosure surrounding the water tank.

I measured the water tank and found out some interesting things, most notably that it is not a 12 gal tank as Scamp indicated. The exterior dimensions are:
19.5 x 11.5 x 11.5 which works out to about 11 gallons and a bit.
Dave the good news is to remove the back bench where the water tank is you dont need to drill out rivets. The bench only has about 6 screws holding it in place - a few at the lower front of it that go into the floor and a few at the top back(outside) section that I dont recall what they go into but what ever it is is also wood - not the fiberglass of the trailer. The bench is really easy to take out.

I must have a bit larger tank than what is in yours as I know mine would not fit in sideways. I did last year redo the straps holding it in place and when I did that I was able to set the tank a little closer to the trailers outside wall to give me a little bit more room for storing plastic collapsible water jugs etc beside it towards the inside of the trailer but not much more.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:32 AM   #20
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Thanks everybody, this site is a wonderful resource!

Carol, i was suspicious of our tank size because our old RV (ancient Fleet slide-in pop-up camper had a 10 gal tank and it seemed that the Scamp tank was similar based on use rate. I am pretty disappointed that it's not a 12 gal but I guess it's better to know that so I can carry an extra jug to compensate.

Good to know the bench removal is easy, thanks!

I agree with the poster who preferred using bolts/nuts where possible so that things can be removed easier.

It sounds like the rivets are primarily used for fast assembly. The issue of their serving as a breakaway point rather than having a shell failure though, seems like something not to ignore, especially since I know I'll be on dirt a fair amount.

Thanks again everybody, and Carol, i was serious if you want to sell some of your rivet collection.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:01 PM   #21
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Well Dave I was equally as serious about the cost of postage from Canada to the US. I recently sent someone on the list a light cover that weighed nothing - If I had mailed it from here the cost would have been in the $9 range to send & then would have gotten it in 10 days - maybe. I instead mailed it on the US side as I happened to be going camping in Washington that week-end - cant recall exactly what it costed but it was under $3.

I travel on rough gravel roads frequently and do have the occasional rivet failure but its not a common thing and certainly not all of the rivets. Only a couple that based on their location are carrying weight and are I suspect located in a major flex point on the trailer. Have only had to replace them a couple of times due to failure in six years. Rather have to replace them quickly and easy than having to deal with possible fiberglass crack repairs. I did though replace a large number of rivets when I got the trailer six years ago when I first got the trailer as it was then 16 year old & had lots of broken retainer snap caps etc.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:30 PM   #22
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[QUOTE=Steve and Rosemary;427075 A previous owner of ours put the AC in that bottom part and then just "added" a closet bottom. ![/QUOTE]

Steve its possible that it wasnt a previous owner but that it came installed that way from the factory. Scamp use to put their AC units in the bottom of the closet area. Not sure what year they stopped doing that but seem to think it was in the late 90's or so.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:05 PM   #23
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I travel on rough gravel roads frequently and do have the occasional rivet failure but its not a common thing and certainly not all of the rivets. Only a couple that based on their location are carrying weight and are I suspect located in a major flex point on the trailer..[/QUOTE]

If you are having rivet failures, install the rivets and tighten them up but dont pop the shank, release your pop rivet gun and cut the shank off flush with the head of the rivet. This will up the rivets shear strength and wear life in those critical areas by leaving the shank still inside the rivet. Scamp did this alot on my trailer from the factory. Especially on the roof hung fiberglass end cabinets.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:18 PM   #24
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Steve, if that is what Scamp is doing they are doing it wrong. That will not up the shear strength. It will make it "weaker". If they are doing this it is because they are not putting the right size rivet in the hole. They have grip length tools so you will know what size rivet "length" that should go in the hole.
Here are a couple of charts that can help anyone out (cheat sheet).
Fastener Mart: Understanding Blind Rivets
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:27 PM   #25
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Wonder if perhaps Scamp is using blind, closed end rivet in some spots now? If I am not mistaken I think those do have more strength. I have never seen any on my old scamp though but I have replaced a couple of rivets where its clear the shank did not brake off down inside but at about the same level as the start of the opening. Always assumed it was perhaps a misfire of some sort. Interested to hear it may actually be related to a miss fitted rivet.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:42 PM   #26
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When a rivet is "shot-pop" or what ever you want to call it, it should leave the stem flush with the rivet head. If the stem it not flush or came out it is either too short or too long of a rivet.
If it is too long protruding from the rivet head "I" would just shave it flush or grind it down flush.
If the stem pulled thru leaving a hole in the rivet I would drill it out and try a longer size. Rivets are cheap so no big loss.
Someone said something to the fact of a nut on the end? Would they be talking about a huck bolt rivet? Or is it just to pretty up the ends? I wouldn't think they use hucks. I did search the scamp site and they show pop rivets.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:45 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ShawnKK View Post
Steve, if that is what Scamp is doing they are doing it wrong. That will not up the shear strength. It will make it "weaker". If they are doing this it is because they are not putting the right size rivet in the hole. They have grip length tools so you will know what size rivet "length" that should go in the hole.
Here are a couple of charts that can help anyone out (cheat sheet).
Fastener Mart: Understanding Blind Rivets
It will up the shear strength because the rivit body will not collapse as easily and tear apart. its marginal but is a benefit in some cases. it will do nothing in tensil load.

there are always better choices out there but nothing as cheep and easy.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:48 PM   #28
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I agree, nothing else as cheap and easy.
I dis agree on the up the shear strength. But it isn't a big deal. Not like anyone or thing depends on one or the other. But Scamp is lieing to you for a fact.

Not sure if everyone knows this but when ever you install a rivet or a bolt ect ect, always put butly tape or a seal on the rivet or bolts. You may think it just pushes right out but not all of it will. It fills any voids and keeps it water tight. That is another reason to make sure the stem didn't pop out.
Also,lol. Another reason they use rivets and not bolts besides cost is a rivet will shear off before the FG cracks under stress. A bolt will not. I would rather have to replace a rivet than do FG work. Depends on the area of your camper but go with what came out of the hole. If you replace a alum with a SS rivet you may be asking for trouble. I notice these eggs are full of alum not SS rivets.
But bottom line, it is your own camper so do what ever makes you feel good!
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