Simple question about rivets and nuts

[semievolved]

Hi, we just bought a 16' scamp and there are a number of changes I plan to make but some of them require removal of the fiberglass interior parts.

I cannot figure out how to remove the nuts from the rivets. Are they meant to be permanently on there? When I turn the nut, the whole rivet turns. I could drill the rivet out but then I'd need to use some bolt/nut combo when I rebuild.

What are others doing? If this has been addressed elsewhere, I'd sure appreciate getting pointed to that discussion.

[stevebaz]

The nut is not used as a nut its a decorator item. The rivet is swelled into the nut just to hold in place. Drill out the rivet from the outside and pull out the rivet. hold the rivet body with a pair of vice grips and unscrew the nut from the rivet shank. Now when you reassemble put in the rivet and have someone hold the nut on the end while you set the rivet. the rivet swells inside the nut and pulls the assembly up tite.

[semievolved]

Steve - thanks much for that answer. I was afraid that's how they worked. So, is there a good place to get a bunch of those rivets that you know of and are there typical lengths that are used? It looks,like the ones that pass all the way through the exterior shell are maybe 1.25" or so?

[ShawnKK]

I don't have a Scamp but looking at the Scamp website they only show the 3/16 rivets. No idea scamp used the ones with the "nut".
When you drill out the rivet check the hole where it came from. If the hole is over sized from wear and or drilling out you would want to go to the next size up.
When drilling out a rivet head try not to go into the FG, just drill enough to break the head of the rivet. You may have to go counter clock wise on the drill before you drill it out. "I" would not grind off the head. Were working on FG not metal.
I looked for a you tube vid on it but saw nothing that will help you out. If you never drilled a rivet out before , try it on something else first. Don't use too much pressure.
Hope this helped a little bit?
PS, if the rivets starts to spend, have someone hold it on the other side like with vise grips or your 3/16 hole will be over sized and another 3/16 rivet wont do much good in a over sized hole.

[Carol H]

There are a number of threads on this list that will help you regarding the correct sizes to use. Remember though that when making changes to your trailer that a number of the interior fiberglass cabinets are actually supporting the trailer - hate seeing a cracked eggs due to the removal of something that was were it was in order to give it structural support.

If you cant be bothered to search for all the right sizes, you can buy from Scamp a package that contains all the rivets and snap rings and caps they use on their trailers. Enough to replace the whole trailer if needed. Not sure if it shows on their online shop or not but if you call the 1-800 number and talk to the parts department they will be able to advise you on it.

Scamp Rivet Size List

Scamp Pop Rivet Lengths

Rivets, caps washers and acorn nuts

[stevebaz]

I bought my rivets from Scamp. Its very hard to find 3/16" rivets in lengths longer than 3/4" or so. Even then I had to cut some longer rivets down to fit properly. Since getting the Harbor freight air riveter to set these rivets it been no fun, my gal loves to use the air gun so I am reduced to helper instead of the other way around. Last week we added new caps and bases to almost a third of the rivets in the trailer in a few hours. And our hands didn't even hurt any.
3/16" Air Hydraulic Riveter

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by stevebaz

the Harbor freight air riveter 3/16" Air Hydraulic Riveter

Thanks for the heads up. Reasonably priced. Will have to get one on my next trip to the USA.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by stevebaz

I bought my rivets from Scamp. Its very hard to find 3/16" rivets in lengths longer than 3/4" or so.

I actually ended up having to cut down by hand a number of rivets and that doesnt always work out to well - depending on the size of the rivet, so I had to buy a real *BIG* box of one size I only needed about a dozen off as I could not find anywhere in smaller quantities - now have a bunch of rivets I will never use up in my life time or the trailers. In hind sight buying everything I needed in one bag from Scamp would probably have been a lot cheaper than buying packages of all the sizes I needed and then never using 3/4 of them not to mention the time wasted trying to find the right sizes.

[semievolved]

Carol - I'll buy your extra rivets!

I was wondering about the structural issue. The main wasted space in ours is the entry closet where the whole bottom half is inaccessible and really unusable other than for geologic layering. I was planning to cut a large part of the front out and install shelves or drawers as a number of others have done. In most of those projects, I don't see any attempt to provide structural frame support so I assumed it would be OK. Has anybody checked with Kent at Scamp about this? Any long-term experience of problems this could cause?

The other thing I'd really like to change if I get time is the area where the water tank resides. The tank is in the middle of the compartment and kind of angled such that it uses almost all the space. I haven't measured yet but it looks like the tank could be placed perpendicular to the trailer and slid all the way to the front of that space which would improve center of gravity issues and would free up much of that space for usable storage.

Any comments, anybody?

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by semievolved

Carol - I'll buy your extra rivets!

I was wondering about the structural issue. The main wasted space in ours is the entry closet where the whole bottom half is inaccessible and really unusable other than for geologic layering. I was planning to cut a large part of the front out and install shelves or drawers as a number of others have done. In most of those projects, I don't see any attempt to provide structural frame support so I assumed it would be OK. Has anybody checked with Kent at Scamp about this? Any long-term experience of problems this could cause?

The other thing I'd really like to change if I get time is the area where the water tank resides. The tank is in the middle of the compartment and kind of angled such that it uses almost all the space. I haven't measured yet but it looks like the tank could be placed perpendicular to the trailer and slid all the way to the front of that space which would improve center of gravity issues and would free up much of that space for usable storage.

Any comments, anybody?

Call Scamp. I believe you can get small quantities from Scamp, but you have to call. It's hard to get some stuff via their web site. They'll sell you the exact size(s) needed.

[Donna D.]

Scamp sell "blank slate" trailers where there's nothing inside EXCEPT added structure around the door and the closet across from the doorway. If you remove either of those parts you must replace with something to hold up the roof. Every vent and every window takes away from the structural integrity of the shell. Eggs do crack...

[ShawnKK]

I didn't know you could buy a blank egg. Any idea how much they are selling for?


Rivets can be bought any where. I bought a bunch of 3/16 from HF for other projects but used them on the Boler. Oh, if you need a shorter rivet, you can always put a washer behind it.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by Carol H

If you cant be bothered to search for all the right sizes,

I bought a kit instore from www.brafasco.com that had a variety of sizes in a nice metal storage case.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by semievolved

Carol - I'll buy your extra rivets!

I was wondering about the structural issue. The main wasted space in ours is the entry closet where the whole bottom half is inaccessible and really unusable other than for geologic layering. I was planning to cut a large part of the front out and install shelves or drawers as a number of others have done. In most of those projects, I don't see any attempt to provide structural frame support so I assumed it would be OK. Has anybody checked with Kent at Scamp about this? Any long-term experience of problems this could cause?

Any comments, anybody?

As silly as it sounds mailing you the rivets will cost more than they are worth.
Canada Post seems to charge more than US Postal.

I cut out a door hole in the bottom section of my main closet space as it was as yours - one big pit where you just dropped things down into. Bought a door from Scamp to match the upper door and installed wire shelves in it. No issues with doing that as Scamp themselves will do it as an optional item. But I am puzzled by your first post as you dont need to drill out any rivets or remove the closet to do that. Removing the rivets or the main component of the closet cause a structural issue though.

[Greg A]

When we rehabbed our Scamp 13 years ago, I drilled out all the rivets and replaced them with SS nuts, bolts, and a bag of white caps from Scamp. Seems it ran around $200 back then to do the whole trailer, but solved having to caulk leaking rivets and made repairs and mods much easier.

[Steve and Rosemary]

I just ordered some nuts from Scamp and they were very helpful and fast. As far as the closet goes, I'm with Carol and wonder why you'd need to remove the closet it modify it. A previous owner of ours put the AC in that bottom part and then just "added" a closet bottom. I plan to put shelves in the rest of the closet since we don't hang much and everything ends up being piled in the bottom -- what a pain!

As far as the water tank, I think I know what you're saying and it just might work. If nothing else, you could probably get a tank that's a slightly different shape to fit as you'd expect. Do you need to remove the benches to get at that? I suppose you do. Something I plan to do (eventually) is add a big hole/hatch on the top of the tank so I can clean it out really thoroughly. There's a thread here somewhere on how to do it but it's too late for me to look now. Does anyone else remember this?

Anyways, good luck with your rivets. We've been too chicken to touch any of ours even though I think a few of them NEED to be replaced now that we've removed all the caulk and SILLYcone that was keeping them from leaking. Winter's almost here so I'm sure we'll find leaks if they're there... soon enough!

[semievolved]

The need to remove interior stuff was for the potential water tank relocation, not the closet mod, sorry to confuse people. I was referring to the need to remove the fiberglass enclosure surrounding the water tank.

I measured the water tank and found out some interesting things, most notably that it is not a 12 gal tank as Scamp indicated. The exterior dimensions are:
19.5 x 11.5 x 11.5 which works out to about 11 gallons and a bit.

If you account for 1/8" wall thickness or so and the fact that the fill port overflows when the tank is still about 1" shy of full, that works out to under 10 gallons, 9.8 by my calculation.

It should be possible to move the tank forward by turning it sideways to the trailer. The side-to-side dimension of that bed bench area (i forget how you guys refer to it) is plenty wide other than the small angled section to the front. It looks like the effective center of gravity of that tank could be moved almost two feet forward, a big deal in my opinion and would open up a lot of storage space for lighter things (bedding?). Water pump and some plumbing would require relocation but it doesn't look too onerous.

[beardrum]

I'm liking the idea of moving the water tank a bit... maybe even putting the water pump in the same compartment and consolidating some space a bit. It looks as if it's just held down with some plumber's strappping tape.

With respect to rivets, I also bought a few from Scamp, along with the white caps and washers, and some acorn nuts. All that stuff should be available elsewhere as well. I've actually not used any of the rivets on the Scamp yet, finding it just as esy to use an honest nut and bolt, with either an acorn nut or a white cap, to mount the few lights and shelf brackets I've added. That makes it easier to modify later.

c

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by semievolved

The need to remove interior stuff was for the potential water tank relocation, not the closet mod, sorry to confuse people. I was referring to the need to remove the fiberglass enclosure surrounding the water tank.

I measured the water tank and found out some interesting things, most notably that it is not a 12 gal tank as Scamp indicated. The exterior dimensions are:
19.5 x 11.5 x 11.5 which works out to about 11 gallons and a bit.

Dave the good news is to remove the back bench where the water tank is you dont need to drill out rivets. The bench only has about 6 screws holding it in place - a few at the lower front of it that go into the floor and a few at the top back(outside) section that I dont recall what they go into but what ever it is is also wood - not the fiberglass of the trailer. The bench is really easy to take out.

I must have a bit larger tank than what is in yours as I know mine would not fit in sideways. I did last year redo the straps holding it in place and when I did that I was able to set the tank a little closer to the trailers outside wall to give me a little bit more room for storing plastic collapsible water jugs etc beside it towards the inside of the trailer but not much more.

[semievolved]

Thanks everybody, this site is a wonderful resource!

Carol, i was suspicious of our tank size because our old RV (ancient Fleet slide-in pop-up camper had a 10 gal tank and it seemed that the Scamp tank was similar based on use rate. I am pretty disappointed that it's not a 12 gal but I guess it's better to know that so I can carry an extra jug to compensate.

Good to know the bench removal is easy, thanks!

I agree with the poster who preferred using bolts/nuts where possible so that things can be removed easier.

It sounds like the rivets are primarily used for fast assembly. The issue of their serving as a breakaway point rather than having a shell failure though, seems like something not to ignore, especially since I know I'll be on dirt a fair amount.

Thanks again everybody, and Carol, i was serious if you want to sell some of your rivet collection.